Hill Dickinson

An old-fashioned insurance firm that's trying desperately to get into "commercial" work. Much is made of the hopes for the Manchester office but it's run by someone who spends most of his time in Liverpool and that only serves to reflect where the power in the firm lies. While it's one of the better firms in Liverpool at the moment, Manchester has a high turnover of staff, including partners (4 out of 20 odd have left in the last year). Very tight on equity - even fixed share - and the salaried partners really have no more status than well thought of assistants in the more commercial firms. Increase in turnover in recent times has largely been the result of mergers.

Anonymous -14 Jun 2007 | 18:52

Although the firm boasts a few big name clients, the truth is that in many cases the work that Hill Dicks does for these clients is low-grade. In some cases - the claims management side, for example - they will turn a profit but in others the work is a loss leader, the Hill Dicks management taking the view that they need to be seen to be working for banks and other institutions even if the work makes little profit for the firm.The firm is run by a small number of partners based in Liverpool. You are unlikely to be kicked out when you hit 50 (which can't be said of many of the firms which HIll Dicks aspires to be), which is good, but the old fashioned lockstep system means that those at the top draw the big money and are generally reluctant to bring on those at the junior end - witness the large number of salaried partners.Best prospects for partnership are in shipping and insurance, although even there progression to equity will be a struggle.

Anon, Hill Dicks -18 Jun 2007 | 09:36

Re Wiki ed's question - Barclays

Anon, Hill Dicks -19 Jun 2007 | 10:06

Do not expect to be taken seriously unless you are a full equity partner. Do not expect to be a full equity partner anytime soon - the PEP won't allow it (particularly in Manchester and Chester.

Disillusioned -20 Jun 2007 | 09:58

It's no secret that Hill Dicks has pursued an active merger policy for the last few years. It shouldn't therefore surprise anyone that this policy, coupled with a lot of lateral hires, means that there isn't a single culture in Hill Dicks. The property division is a good example of the culture. Hill Dicks and Bullivant Jones came into the merger with similar numbers in that discipline, so politically they had to install joint heads, one from Hill Dicks and one from Bullivant Jones. In Manchester there are almost as many factions as there are partners - hardly a surprise given the way that the office has been built up - a few people from Liverpool, Gornas, Elliots, a lot of lateral hires and a high turnover of staff.

Anonymous -21 Jun 2007 | 09:56

David Wareing was brought into Manchester in an attempt to give the office a common direction. It's difficult to see how he can achieve that when he spends most of his time in Liverpool.It's well known that they're desperate for a merger in Manchester and that's hardly going to make matters more unified. That said, no-one they've approached seems particularly interested.

Solicitor, national practice -21 Jun 2007 | 12:00

No doubt that Liverpool runs the show.

Anonymous -22 Jun 2007 | 16:06

2008 is Liverpool Capital of Culture year and Hill Dicks is pinning its hopes on this to raise its profile. Will it work? Probably not.More significantly it's likely to be the first year in some time that Hill Dicks will post figures that don't follow a significant merger. These past merger have apparently allowed Hill Dicks to appear as though it has experienced substantial growth, conveniently playing down the fact that most (if not all) the increase in turnover comes from the addition of another practice.So, will there be another stellar increase in the figures, even without a merger? The general consensus seems to be that there won't.

Anon -04 Jan 2008 | 07:48

There may not be the stellar growth of previous years but the previous poster completely misunderstands Peter Jackson et al's strategy if they believe everything turns on Liverpool '08. Hill Dickinson has already obtained substantial exposure and benefit from its involvement with the Capital Culture over the last few years, and that's even before the Capital of Culture year itself actually kicks in. I work in another office and those offices are aware of that Liverpool '08 has less impact elsewhere - but we also know that Hill Dickinson has undertaken different initiatives to promote and increase the size of those offices. The effect of recent lateral hires, the integration of the merged offices and HD's strategy to expand the Manchester office will start to show in the next 12 - 18 months... so the feeling in HD is that the best is yet to come!

HD Assistant -08 Jan 2008 | 16:35

I hope you're right HD Assistant, but big things have been expected of the other offices for some time now. Of course it's not just about Liverpool 08, but don't underestimate the time, effort and cost that's gone into this - it needs to yield real results.

Anonymous -09 Jan 2008 | 16:12

Possibly this is the feeling in London, HD Assistant, but it certainly does not feel that way in Manchester. I have seen many colleagues leave in the last couple of years, due to poor pay, morale and quality of work. The feeling of many staff (who are neither [equity] partners nor marketing assistants) is that we are not even in the same league as the likes of Cobbetts, let alone DLA or Eversheds. We feel that the management board needs to look at this seriously instead of believing its own hype.

HD Assistant -09 Jan 2008 | 18:31

The management board need to realise that if as many people leave the Manchester office as join it, not only will it never grow it will become increasingly difficult to attract new recruits (at least of the appropriate quality). A merger with a decent Manchester practice might help, but options look thin on the ground.

Anonymous -11 Jan 2008 | 09:00

My comment of the 8th was based on Manchester too. If you joined a commercial team in Manchester a couple of years ago and had illusions of being in the same tier as Eversheds or DLA you didn't do your due diligence. If you look at recent lateral hires its fairly obvious that the expansion plan isn't now based on a merger. There is also the point that, as an assistant, there will often be sizeable delay between what is actually being done by the firm at senior level (such as negotiating lateral hires etc) and when you find out about it (the same time as Legal Week!). The Manchester office has the potential to grow, only time will tell if it actually happens. On the assistant point, while there is always going to be an attrition rate between firms at assistant level, I accept HD's is significantly higher than several of its Manchester competitors. This is due in no small part to the pay gap between HD and the likes of DLA etc to which you refer. On the positive side, and depending on your practice area, there is good experience and responsibility to be gained at an early stage at HD. Redressing that disparity will undoubtedly help reduce churn to a degree, but there will always be someone out there prepared to pay more. The question for you as an assistant is which in the long term will work best for you? Answers on a postcard please.

HD Assistant from the 8th -11 Jan 2008 | 18:27

Hill Dicks have had an active lateral hire strategy in Manchester for a long time, so it's not new. The problem is that the turnover of these hires is a lot higher than it should be.

Anonymous -13 Jan 2008 | 12:52

Anyone else get the feeling that "HD Assistant" is not actually an assistant?

Regional firm, Liverpool -14 Jan 2008 | 13:06

If you mean the first one, Regional Firm, then I agree. It's a little bit too "on message".

Anonymous -14 Jan 2008 | 14:38

Well I may sound on message but I'm also an assistant. I'm just someone who's happy with their lot and knows enough people in other firms to know once you've cut through the gloss the grass is most definitely not always greener.

1st HD Assistant -14 Jan 2008 | 16:15

Fair enough 1st HD Assistant. As one other poster hints, there's a certain amount of hype that seems to be believed by the equity partners and marketing people but not many others. Manchester has been the next big thing for HD for some time but some would say that at the moment it's treading water at best. Bringing over the fraud team adds numbers and revenue to the Manchester office but isn't really growth. Yes, there has been a recent high profile lateral hire but is it enough?

Anonymous -18 Jan 2008 | 08:35

Great to see not one mention of the firm in the Law Society Gazette (22 May edition) "City Focus: Manchester" article...I am so disillusioned.

Hill Dicks, Manchester -27 May 2008 | 12:24

Are Hill Dicks in Manchester? I've been here five years and not noticed!

Anonymous -29 May 2008 | 13:26

Well you can be sure that when they do an article on the highest paid partner in Manchester they'll be sure to mention Hill Dicks...

Anonymous -01 Jul 2008 | 18:05

1 July poster - can you elaborate? Also, what were the pay rises like? I am considering joining.

Thinking about moving -02 Jul 2008 | 20:44

Read the Related Articles for recent hires, it may give you a clue..Pay reviews were poor for assistants, very little differential between NQs and 4/5PQE - you'll do better at nearly all other large Manchester city centre firms. That said, rumour is they pay well enough to attract people in - hence the disquiet amongst those who've been here a year or two, just don't expect much of a rise once they have you onboard.

Anon -03 Jul 2008 | 17:18

They pay what they can get away with. If they want to get you in, they'll probably find the money. After that though, don't expect much.

Anonymous -05 Jul 2008 | 11:36

Pay's not much better for the salaried partners. You only have to look at the number who leave to see that.

Anonymous -05 Jul 2008 | 11:38

So, has Liverpool 08 worked?

Anonymous -15 Dec 2008 | 17:03

Time to go

Pay frozen most likely for the next few years - are there any positive signs? Not sure - number of people in my team heading elsewhere - a few to DWF.

Profit down, turnover up? Taking on work without it being profitable - we are so desperate to be seen to be working for the big boy brands!

Un-health-y -15 Aug 2009 | 11:48

To be fair, Hill Dicks working for big names for no real profit isn't new. It's a strategy that hasn't been working for a long time. Similarly an ambitious lateral hire policy doesn't appear to have had any real impact.

Hill Dicks' increases in turnover have often largely been the result of mergers, rather than organic growth. Turnover vanity, profit sanity, but cash is king.

The Manchester office remains a less than happy place.

Anon -26 Aug 2009 | 09:37

I agree

It's a strategy that is clearly going to continue though - there is a real emphasis on Hill Dicks being the No 1 Commercial Law firm in the North West. In fact our entire PR plan is based upon it.

In fact the entire BD plan is based on it with the sales team now made up of ex-corporate lending reps from RBS.

But I agree, marketing and business development has never worked - and it seems growth is purely and simply through acquisition. You say Manchester are not a happy bunch? You should go and visit the London office - puts Manchester in the shade in terms of its disarray.

Un-health-y -10 Sep 2009 | 10:30

Going nowhere

I agree with above sentiments - there is a total lack of vision and strategy at HD. Peter Jackson's roadshow last year was about making the firm 'bigger' - but no mention of whether this was going to be as a result of 'cost leadership' or 'differentiation' - the only true methods of growth. London I agree is a total mess. So much squabbling, so many splinter groups and not a very nice place to work.

Hayley Spencer -04 Dec 2009 | 13:55

Help please

I'm a trainee starting in Manchester in September 2010. Funny thing is most of us are very happy about securing a TC in the recent economic times. We're also led to believe we have good prospects as a trainee in a growing office.

1 Could someone please offer tips/opinions on which Manchester practices are best for job prospects on qualification and which we should try to avoid?
2 Is there anything else we should be made aware of unofficially before starting? It's daunting as it is starting a legal career and the above debate is worrying.

HD Manchester Trainee To Be -30 Mar 2010 | 00:36

Halldickinwells

What is the verdict on taking on the Cuff Roberts lot?

Soothsayer -03 Aug 2010 | 17:29

Hilliwell Dickinson

Many commentators have already questioned the deal with Halliwells, with most people assuming there would be a deal for the Manchester office. Liverpool alone was therefore a bit of a surprise.

It'll increase turnover but did Hill Dicks really need a bigger Liverpool operation? The management keep saying that they want to build the Manchester office, but Halliwells probably represented the only realistic way of doing that to any degree anytime soon.

Might taking the Halliwells Manchester operation have shifted some power away from Liverpool?

Anon -11 Aug 2010 | 12:00

Downward spiral

Turnover up but profits down yet again for the scousers. New hit squad has been developed to identify ways of cutting costs, no doubt path of least resistance will be taken with the poor old business support likely to be hit with redundancies.

Is this a market transition in the north of England - sensible companies refusing to pay top whack hourly rates? if so a radical business support cull is hardly going to help!

Anon -16 Aug 2010 | 16:08

poor leadership

poor leadership. Litigators trying to lead but frankly no idea. Little care for the staff. For the benefit of everyone it would be better if the senior partner and managing partner recognise it. Very unhappy firm Poor focus. Will only begin to move forward when the management step down and do what every other successful national firm has done which is to move the leadership team to London and integrate all the offices.

Anonymous -01 Oct 2010 | 13:40

Trainee's perspective

I have to agree with many of the sentiments stated here. Unfortunately, barely anyone in my intake had a positive word to say about the firm.

We had no idea how the TC would be structured. We had no idea how we could influence seat choices, nevermind choose. No-one told us what we should have taken for electives. The firm is simply terrible at communicating with staff and future-trainees. The HR department have no idea about anything at all.

I've met some of the future trainees and most of them seem to wish they'd taken TCs elsewhere. A sorry bunch.

Trainee -02 Oct 2010 | 00:25

Management problems

The biggest barrier to Hill Dicks is definitely management. There is a lack of three things: openness, communication and support.

Most employees have no idea what is going on in the firm because management come up with ridiculous things to occupy us with on doogle, for example, yet don't ask for our opinions on important issues as to how we feel the firm could improve going forward.

The communication is terrible at times. When I was a trainee, no-one knew what would happen with the training contract structure. The entire HR team and the responsible partner(s) for allocating seats just don't seem to care who was interested in what, quite frankly. Now I'm qualified I have much more direction, but there are so any factions between people it's ridiculous. Still, the HR team need training. The HR director(s) responsible have no idea what a law firm even does.

Benefits-wise, the firm's salaries are reasonable to start with but increases are minimal compared to other firms. No wonder staff turnover is so high - there are better offers everywhere. Take a look at Cobbetts or Halliwells where, despite the recession, salaries and benefits attrition rates were still very reasonable.

Finally, if HD want to move into the real 'commercial' work, they need to merge with someone big in either London or Manchester. They are very much litigation/insurance heavy and simply don't carry the brand that other nationals carry. One wonders whether the Hill Taylor Dickinson reunion has done more harm than good for merger prospects with a decent London outfit.

Solicitor -03 Oct 2010 | 03:56

There will always be unhappy people at every firm, HD is no exception. In response to the above complaints of poor management/leadership though, let's not forget that HD has also navigated through the most difficult economic environment of recent times better than most. No redundancies, growth in practically all areas of the business, increased turnover. Work to do to increase profits, I wouldn't disagree, but then aren't many firms out there that don't have improvements to make.

foyle -04 Oct 2010 | 17:04

'Truth' is the new 'spin'

Agree with you foyle that there are always unhappy people in every organisation, but I think there is a 'general mass and consensus' of unhappiness which is slightly different.

Profit was hardly ever on the agenda. A culture of working and not billing. You talk insanely about turnover and you mask the lack of organic growth by buying out straggling law firms. Those law firms are then subjected to an integration plan which consists of installing groupwise and leaving them to their own devices.

No redundancies? People just disappeared for no good reason? I quote from the Liverpool Echo (29/09/10) a recent article by a former member of your HR team:

“Hill Dickinson was getting rid of quite a lot of people. I never thought I would see my name down on the list, being in HR, but no-one is safe.”

???????

'Navigation' ha - as marine experts you are best placed to know that any fool can cross a turbulent ocean blindfolded in the hope they don't run into a 'mersey brown trout'.

foyle'd in PR -06 Oct 2010 | 10:23

Selective quotes

@foyle'd in PR

Do you not agree that quoting from an article about a former colleague entitled "Steph sets up as Merseyside’s only female plasterer" is not the most reliable source of business information about the firm? Selective quotes taken out of context are unhelpful.

Read more:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2010/09/29/steph-sets-up-as-merseyside-s-only-female-plasterer-100252-27359935/#ixzz11bGOu4tU

Good luck to her.

Anonymous -06 Oct 2010 | 18:27

Selective Quotes

The quote isn't taken out of context at all. In response to foyles 'no redundancies' comment, it's purely within context that she was made redundant and witnessed (as a member of the HR team) others being made redundant too.

The fact she went off plastering peoples walls after the event hardly warrants it as an unreliable account.

There were people who lost their jobs.

Quite why the firm has decided to deny it is quite bizarre.

foyle'd in PR -06 Oct 2010 | 21:25

We could have been contenders

Why do their senior guys constantly rattle on about how they nearly took over Halliwells? They were in there looking at Halliwells for ages and could and should have done the deal. Speaks volumes that they didn't. Fortune favours the brave. Being a 'rent a quote' about what might have been does little to enhance the reputation of the firm or its management.

Fixation -19 Oct 2010 | 21:06

hmm

My department in Manc is excellent, although the office leaves a bit to be desired. Having boredly browsed through other firms' posts it would appear that people only post if they have beef. Whilst communication can leave a fair bit to be desired, and historically money and time has been wasted on wild geese, I actually think that management is doing a good job at HD. As for being a good place to work - it must vary office to office - you will struggle to find a better bunch of lawyers (as people) to work with in Manchester.

A.sol -11 Dec 2010 | 11:23

Burning question?

Interested in whether the appointment of ex-RBS staff in the business development team has worked?

I am sure they are well-connected and all but going from giving away free money to selling £400 an hour legal services, I wonder is a bridge too far?

RBS Buff -17 Feb 2011 | 15:24