Career Clinic: Can I qualify into one of the 'weird' parts of the world?

Hmmm

If you are called Sacha, have bushy moustache and unitard there plenty opportunities...maybe get film crew to follow as you make glorious law in weird parts of world!

If you do your research you will find that most things are possible although not necessarily easy. If you work overseas, speaking the language is a positive advantage in communicating with clients and colleagues. The requirements for foreign lawyers vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Did you need someone to tell you that or are you just trying to find material for your new film?

Sacha -14 Feb 2011 | 16:31

To do so would be a huge blunder. Most foreign outposts - and particularly those in remote places - are tiny compared to the mothership. You would be sacrificing so much training at a critical stage in your development. You could well get a post, and would probably get vastly broader experience than you could ever hope for at home, but it is likely to be 'seat of the pants' stuff that you will do badly. Better to do a brief secondment only, or learn the trade at home then go out with a few years experience under your belt.

Most weird places are in fact also a bit crap if you are English, so while your mates are off out to the pub and/or settling down with a nice girl, you will be watching CNN on your own or with some Russian hooker. Assuming you are a bloke. (If you are a bird you would be even more mad to go somewhere like that.)

Anonymous -14 Feb 2011 | 17:34

Thanks

I should add I'm also interested in jurisdictions like New Zealand and Australia, not weird but more exciting than London! I understood that NQ positions are rare here.

Original poster -14 Feb 2011 | 19:31

The antipodes won't take you...

Your chances of qualifying into Oz or NZ are quite small. Whilst there are a lot of jobs at the 3-5 PQE mark, there is quite little at the very junior end and you will face difficulties in obtaining a visa unless you can find a firm to sponsor you. The odds of anybody sponsoring an NQ are exceptionally slim (even if you have a 1st from Oxbridge and a MC background). Also keep in mind that unless you have an LLB it can be relatvely time consuming to requalify in Oz or NZ.

Get 2 or 3 years experience in a good firm first and then look at moving around.

Blinky Bill -15 Feb 2011 | 06:10

Oz and NZ - not a chance

Coming from a real estate finance background in Tokyo, I thought getting a job in the Oz/NZ markets would be easy. I was even willing to take a cut on PQE to get one, but it is immensely difficult because: (i) it costs a whole load of money to get you out there and train you up, something which in this market can be easily avoided by employing any one of the redundant native lawyers wanting jobs; and (ii) all job offers are likely to be subject to you sitting the bar in a very tight timeframe. I had one firm willing to talk but they wanted a guarantee that I would sit and pass the NZ bar in a few months - too much of a risk and too much work in such a short time frame.

I wish you well, but looking at the market, my advice would be to sit tight for a few years in a steady job, get some money in the bank and then take a risky leap of faith abroad if it still appeals. Alright, so that is not rock 'n' roll but in this market, I suspect there's little chance of it happening anyway.

Best of luck.

Me -15 Feb 2011 | 10:40

Have you looked into the routes to qualification in Kazakhstan (or your chosen jurisdiction)? Have you contacted any law firms there? If not, perhaps try that...

Anonymous -15 Feb 2011 | 11:21

Why?

What I don't get from your question (and only a little from your follow-up) is why you have this interest? Have you ever been to the places you want to move to? Why do you want to live there? Did you never take a gap year and just fancy some world travel? What do you think living and practicing abroad will do for you?

In your follow up, you seem to suggest that anywhere would be more exciting than London as a place to live. Unless I'm mis-reading, your interest is based on your non-work life rather than a desire to practice law elsewhere.

I would strongly suggest following one of the other poster's suggestions of getting a secondment somewhere. In most other jurisdictions there will be some hoops to jump through if you want to qualify to practice the local law, and it seems foolish to put the effort in if you have no idea whether the country/culture will be a good fit.

In the mean time, taking language classes is probably a good idea. Obviously not necessary for somewhere like Oz/NZ, but if you want to sell yourself to your firm as a potential secondee, being able to speak the local language can only help your case.

Beth -15 Feb 2011 | 17:08

A Little Too Soon

I definitely think there is a lot of sense in spending at least two years post qualification in the UK to build on core competencies. If you want to work in one of the far flung places you mention, I would recommend trying to focus your practice on areas most relevant to those parts of the world. I would suggest that Project Finance and/or Energy and Resources will provide you with the most opportunities to move. Energy teams are sometimes willing to hire those without specific energy experience (but solid corporate) at the junior side (NQ level). An alternative would be to look for firms with offices in those locations, as a few UK firms have offices in Almaty (e.g. SNR Denton).

In relation to OZ/NZ there are definitely opportunities to move at around the 2 – 3 PQE mark. Energy, banking and corporate are the most transferable areas. I moved across to Sydney from London at around the 2.5 PQE mark. Requalification is a visa condition but not all firms push hard on this to be done as soon as you land. I’ve been at mine for two years now and have yet to requalify (much to the dismay of the HR department of the firm). However, the culture in Australian firms is very different to that in the UK and the pay rates are lower than London. I’d speak to some Australian lawyers before you make a move.

All the best.

Expat Lawyer -16 Feb 2011 | 00:19

Great Idea.

Hey, why not? I qualified at one of the silver circle firms, got a good solid corporate TC and decided that the UK working scene wasn't for me. Okay, I am originally not British, but that is besides the point. I applied for a 'former Soviet' jurisdiction after seeing an advert in Legal Week magazine. Two interviews later and thankfully I landed it - 15 months later I am still here. The wages are sweet (£65k net starting), the local cuisine, social scene/nightlife, women and general people are great and I have great work/life balance. The cost of living is almost nil so I save plenty of cash. Definitely try it. Life is so much more fun now and I really enjoy my job. Lots of variety and great clients. I work on many English law deals and I am learning plenty. The road less travelled is definitely a more interesting one (IMO). I am becoming specialised in this particular region/market and this will be of immense use to me as I become more senior. Work is through English although I am learning the new lingo quickly!

Don't listen to the begrudgers that only wish they could escape the dystopian life that is the trapped underpaid and overworked life most lawyers lead in the UK. Living for the weekend/pub is no way to live!

Uncle Roscoe -18 Feb 2011 | 14:49

Agree with Uncle

I completely agree with Uncle Roscoe.

I moved to a top tier Aussie firm on qualification and haven't looked back!

Ignore the spineless posters above.

NQ Jumper -21 Feb 2011 | 05:48

Doesn't have to be weird

I've been practising English law in a very civilised western European city for several years, earn far more and have a much better quality of life than my MC colleagues in London. My workload is far more varied than my London colleagues. That said, maybe it's a bit too civilised and I'm thinking of moving further east...

anon -21 Feb 2011 | 21:28