Career Clinic: An Englishman in New York

You are eligible for the California bar. Once you have that, by passage of time (2 or 3 years) you become eligible for the New York bar. I believe that's your best, albeit round-about, way of achieving what you want.

J -01 Mar 2010 | 16:14

Don't hand in your notice just yet

It's unclear whether you are moving to New York or moving across London to a New York firm's office there.

Either way, it's correct that you are ineligible to sit for the NY Bar without a law degree equivalent to a US JD (which the CPE/LPC combination is not) or 20 credits at an ABA approved law school.

If you're moving to New York (and have somehow overcome the visa hurdles that entails) this could be solved by attending a part-time course at e.g. Fordham or Cardozo which I've known several Brits to do and can be completed while employed with a bit of dedicated time management. You would then take some time off to take the bar exam. That a US firm would offer you a job in NY on that basis in the current market seems remarkable and if the penny hasn't dropped for them I would expect their attitude to change quickly once it did.

It seems more likely therefore that you're moving across London to the UK office of a NY firm in which case I know of no way in which to complete 20 credits (or 24 to get an LLM) to satisfy the bar entrance requirements. Your best bet is probably to contact the ABA (or at least Google) for their list of approved schools in case there is something in London that qualifies (such as one of the providers of the bar study programmes).

Either way, I wouldn't hand in your notice just yet as it sounds like you're potentially facing a dead-end by not having studied law in the first place.

Finally, there have been other posts on this sort of topic in the past - for example, see "Should I ditch my magic circle TC and do the NY Bar?"

US Associate -01 Mar 2010 | 16:15

There isn't a solution, unless they are prepared to defer this requirement and support you in studying once stateside for the necessary credits.

But presumably, they must be prepared to do this, because otherwise they wouldn't have offered someone who doesn't have an LLB the job....

Anonymous -01 Mar 2010 | 16:27

Being unable to sit the NY Bar if you did a conversion is pretty well-known. Your options are to see if you can by distance-learning upgrade your conversion to an LLB or do some kind of part-time or distance-learning LLM in the US. The latter is probably better since you might be able to study some of the same things you have to take the NY Bar and so minimise the workload.

Or you can persuade your employer to let you practise using admission to the California Bar which requires no qualifications to sit for. The California Bar is however much harder than the NY Bar (and the NY Bar is hard anyway).

MC Associate -01 Mar 2010 | 16:29

CPE/GDL eligibility for NY

Based on 16 years' experience of running BarBri bar review courses for NY and CA in the UK I would say the advice re taking CA and then studying 20 credits part-time is what most candidates in your position do. (Ignore the suggestion I see in another post re "upgrading" to an LLB by distance learning; that won't work)

Denis Carey -02 Mar 2010 | 10:39

Do not be discouraged.

I, too, had to look for a creative way to let New York let me sit the bar exam.

I am willing to share tips if you tell me how you managed to get a job in this climate! They allowed me to sit it (after I appealled) based on my qualification as a UK lawyer. I do have an LLB just not a conventional one - so this might make a different. I would advise - just state your case ably and confidently.

Associate who passed bar -02 Mar 2010 | 13:15

Does anyone know the prospects of obtaining a job in New York (with or without the NY bar exam) as a UK qualified solicitor if you have residential rights to the States? I assume the visa issue makes it much more difficult. Does anyone have experience of the prospect of obtaining a role as a lawyer in NY if you have visa rights?

Thanks.

Anonymous -02 Mar 2010 | 13:42

I am a California-qualified US lawyer who has practised with a top NY firm in London. In my experience, if you're advising on capital markets matters, US firms that otherwise require the NY bar will be fine with another major jurisdiction, such as California or DC.

As to whether the California or New York bar exam is harder, it's a much-debated topic, and there's not necessarily a clear-cut answer.

The advantage is that you can then practice in California, which is much nicer than New York. ;)

Anonymous -03 Mar 2010 | 11:46

As the guy who said the California Bar was harder than the NY Bar, it's just what I've been told - I've sat neither so don't be deterred from it if others know more.

Was told a funny story about a California Bar exam (apparently most people type using a laptop for the exams now). Just as the candidates were told they could start the exam, someone immediately puked onto their laptop - and others fell like dominoes, with several other people starting to puke on their laptops or the floor. The guy telling the story had to keep going while all this retching was going on - he was very surprised to have passed.

MC Associate -03 Mar 2010 | 12:22

Passage of Bar exams means squat! I passed both the NY and Cal Bar while working full-time (as a paralegal) and without taking a Bar Bri prep course. I gained one of the top grades on the Cal bar that year (2006). I am still looking for a qualified position and still doing paralegal and doc review work, despite having passed these two exams and graduating from a Tier 1 law school.

anon73 -03 Mar 2010 | 20:33

Necessary?

Obviously your offer is conditional on passing the bar course. However, a quick look through the list of contacts at some of the international firms shows that there are English-qualified lawyers working in New York without passing a state bar exam at all.

Is it strictly necessary to be a member of a state bar?

nick -10 Mar 2010 | 08:52

To the Associate who passed the Bar & for Mr Carey:

I am in a great fix, as a few days earlier I received the standard letter from the New York Board of Law Examiners stating that I need to undertake 20 credits at an ABA law school. My concern is - I shall be qualifying as a Solicitor of England & Wales under the QLTT route. I am working in the UK. Now, to me it seems an impossible task to undertake almost something four credits short of a US LLM i.e. 20 credits at exorbitant prices just to do the NY Bar. Is there any way around this - if I lodge an appeal etc? (I will qualify as a solicitor in December 2010). Is there any way that a UK solicitor would find a way around this maze - I would not be able to incorporate the financial implication of the LLM from the US. How should I proceed? I just want to do it so sincerely, all I need is some direction to guide me and qualified advice.

Supreet S More -30 Mar 2010 | 22:30

To those who are suggesting getting the NY Bar by the back door through CA qualification: bear in mind that CA does not have reciprocity with NY. So even if you were able to pass the CA bar, you would still need to take the NY bar exam (although you would only need to take one day rather than two days of the exam).

CA-qualified -01 Apr 2010 | 01:13