Career Clinic: Is the City out of touch?

Welcome to the world of the white ex-public school boy, wrapped in money and entitlement since birth and now working with the same. If you're not one of them, then get used to being a second-class colleague!

bobby smith -18 Jan 2010 | 14:38

It's ridiculous to suggest that such attitudes are ubiquituous in the City. Of course there will always be people with questionable views, but if it's more than just the odd comment from certain individuals, and if these comments are being made openly, then yes - you've lucked out with a bad team.

Anonymous -18 Jan 2010 | 16:43

Nicely put Bobby Smith, but I’d say it’s wider than that. During my time at a MC firm, I had the misfortune to hear a quite outrageous range of comments from the “I’m not a racist but” Daily Mail style comment, to muted anti-semitism, and once, from a partner no less, a joke about Thalidomide babies complete with elbow-based gesticulation (and yes, that one was within the last couple of years, not in the mid-80s). Delightful. So far, so Bernard Manning.

However, I’d suggest that the racism, etc is becoming more muted now, but there is still a superiority complex amongst many lawyers, and this doesn’t split on purely sex/race grounds anymore. I know it was seen as “not quite the done thing” for me to be friends with the secretaries in the team... more typical of my former colleagues would be to make some sort of disinterested enquiry about their weekend immediately before dumping some work on them. Question is one for your own principles: do you (a) join in; (b) not join in but not react; (c) look disapproving but stay silent; (d) pass comment about how it is inappropriate. Remember most of the time though, a superiority complex/arrogance is actually masking deeper insecurity. People are often covering up for their own social inadequacies... many of your colleagues will either have been bullied at school for being clever; or retain a slight embarrassment about their privilege, so looking down their noses at the “white van classes” (again, a partner’s turn of phrase) helps them feel better about their childhoods. The rise of the chavocracy definitely threatens them...

Stupot -18 Jan 2010 | 16:54

Chavocracy

One of the contributors above suggested that City solicitors were threatened by the rise of Chavocracy.

Not at all.

They ARE the Chavocracy. From partner level down.

Along with their banker mates.

Do you really think these people represent the English middle classes?

Wow.

Tom -18 Jan 2010 | 17:08

Tom

I suspect I disagree. There is a difference between the geezer trader and the public school corporate financier. Similarly, there is a difference between a real geezer and the faux-geezer wannabe. City law firms aren’t full of the chavocracy. They might have a fair few faux-geezers who bought a sheepskin jacket after watching Lock Stock, and make out like they’re down with the cool kids hanging out in Hoxton (not realising “Hoxton” moved to Dalston years ago... mind you that scene is resolutely Trustafarian, but I digress), but they ain’t chavs son no matter how you cut it, council estate origins for the Barbican or no.

Unless your point is that they’re money without class, feigning culture by referencing the books they’ve read (from the Richard & Judy book list); the art they appreciate (from the Sunday supplement features); and the wine they favour with this course (from the Square Meal recommendations garnered five minutes before they ran to the cab). In which case, I agree, there are a few like that. But that is rather common “aspirational” middle class behaviour, much like guys who can speak with a perfect foreign accent to fit the jurisdiction of the restaurant, but can’t actually speak that language.

But returning to the original poster’s comment – whilst this behaviour isn’t present in all firms, it does seem to be present in many firms. And the wannabe street behaviour that you might encounter when you go for “edgy” team drinks down the pool hall/bowling alley from the younger ones (rebelling against the old school tie/Pall Mall club behaviour of the older ones) doesn’t change the prejudices that do seem rather prevalent. But that’s only one white middle class male’s experience...

Stupot -18 Jan 2010 | 19:16

Elitism not racism

I agree with Stupot that what you're seeing is garden variety elitism, not necessarily racism. I have worked in the City and know a number of other people who do and have been shocked at the general degree of disdain to the support staff (and where I currently work they're almost all white and mainly from Essex).

I don't think it masks an inferiority complex either. People who are smart are told by society that they're "too good" to be cleaners or secretaries. And sooner or later they believe it. Anyone who does take these jobs must, therefore, be inferior to them.

Maybe there was a day when City Wide Boyd really did come from the East End and poor/lower middle class backgrounds. Today most of the City lawyers/bankers I know were privately educated (or maybe went to a grammar school), have parents who were/are professionals and went to old universities (mainly Oxbridge). They are not chavs by any means. (And I have worked with chavs too, just not in the City in positions of influence/importance).

Beth -19 Jan 2010 | 10:10

Reading through the above comments I am struck by the level of hate and the lack of self awareness.

Shame on you. You've just substituted your venom towards one section of society to a different section of society.

The stereotypes used bear remarkable similarity to those used by racists.

Stop being so silly.

Rory -19 Jan 2010 | 13:38

Rory stated: "The stereotypes used bear remarkable similarity to those used by racists"

Except, of course, that ethnic minorities don't recieve a £100m subsidy to educate their children, unlike the beauties sent to public school who receive this subsidy via the charity exemption given to public schools. In addition, ethnic minorities don't generally get a career because of where they schooled and what daddy did, but do face massive discrimination, often at the hands of the very same ex-public schoolboys we're discussing here. Just look at the backgrounds of partners in the top 50 UK firms and tell me all's well with social mobility!

bobby smith -19 Jan 2010 | 16:02

Rory

On the contrary, shame on you Rory for edging so perilously close to Godwin's Law...

Just so we're clear, the "stereotypes" in my posts were created based purely on thinking about people I've met during my time in the City. I'm not going to name them, because that would be poor form, so I've made my comments generic.

And...there's no venom. More arch self-awareness, given that I'm a privately educated white middle class male who likes nice food... but also happens to be able to hold a conversation with a secretary (and the key here is not caring that they are a secretary...I only use that for identification purposes).

Beth - what I'm trying to get at here is that I sometimes feel like elitism can be based on earlier feelings of inferiority, whatever the subsequent life experience. So, the privately educated chap, having taken grief from his comprehensive counterparts on the bus for wearing a blazer rather than a sweatshirt, may well have been told he was great at school for doing well in his exams, and off he toddled to a fine university. Even if relatively cossetted within a private school, there may well have been contemporaries who expressed disdain for his focus on academics. But there can be a retained resentment as a result, and that can evolve into the elitism mentioned. Not seeking to make psychological generalisations, I'm talking about my own psyche there... and it's something I am aware of and work on. I just wish some of the others in the City would have that level of awareness about their behaviour and the impact it could have on others (including the OP) too, whether or not their behaviour has common origins.

Stupot -19 Jan 2010 | 16:58

Get a grip

Take some responsibility for your own actions people.

You don't have to behave in the same way as people in your firm.

If you don't like the attitudes where you work, and it bothers you that much, then start planning an escape.

Educated people will always act in an elitist, sometimes unpleasant fashion to those that they deem inferior, and the poster who said it masked deeper insecurity is correct. But really, are we going to debate this like it's just lawyers? At certain City firms?

You see the same thing in all professions and environments. Doctors will always look down on nurses in the same way the partner will see him/herself as superior to the secretary... it's not nice but its part of life. And far far worse in other parts of the world (caste system in India anyone?). Working as a lawyer in the City it really isn't that bad.

So get over it!! Or leave. Or if it really is that bad so as to be inappropriate and/or offensive, make a complaint.

The reality may be that you are bit chippy about your own background and are projecting your opinions and insecurities onto other people (who admittedly lack social skills).

There will always be unpleasant snobby people in the world - quite what this has to do with law or the employment context I have no idea!

Alex B -19 Jan 2010 | 18:05

Depressing reading

I found both the question and the responses depressing. I left a magic circle firm many years ago because I hated the crass elitism and I am dispirited to see it is still present, and disappointed to see comments saying it always will be. When will they ever learn? If you have had the luck to be born with the brains to be a lawyer or the good fortune to be born to upper middle class parents, you are set for life. Just try and be grateful that you are not a 45-year-old secretary from a poor background having to sit there and suffer the petty insults of much younger people with a superiority complex. My advice to the questioner is just continue to treat people with the high level of respect that clearly your mum and dad did a good job in imparting to you. Thank goodness there are people like you around.

Andrew Reid -20 Jan 2010 | 16:37

The City is not out of touch. Just some of its residents. Same applies to the regions. And not just lawyers - accountants, bankers, surveyors, IPs can all be just as bad. I always hoped that this would die out with the dinosaurs currently holding senior positions but it seems that the naive weak are taking their lead from the outdated fossils. Unfortunately, it seems the professions as a whole are out of touch, have been for some time and it looks like they will continue to be so.

Anonymous -20 Jan 2010 | 16:51

The problem with law firms is that their structure puts people into management positions (partners) without training those people to be managers. Partners own the business and can, and do, say and do whatever they like with impunity. They do not answer to HR or anyone else. Insecure partners with no social or management skills can be a pathetic nightmare; they can take out their insecurities on intelligent, popular assistants or secretaries (or other non-partner staff) as and how they like. I see it all the time and it disgusts me too. When it suits me to move on, I certainly will! To the OP, I would say put yourself first - if you want to stay where you are to build up your PQE, gain experience and earn a good salary for a few years, then do so. You will know when the time comes to move on - make a plan for the future and stick to it. Spend as much work time as possible with people you like and respect and try to talk about things with people close to you. This will make you feel better and keep you sane. Good luck!

Anonymous -21 Jan 2010 | 10:07

"Welcome to the world of the white ex-public school boy, wrapped in money and entitlement since birth and now working with the same." - bobby smith

Bobby - you're a bigot. EOM.

JT -21 Jan 2010 | 10:14

Yawn

This thread of comments has got really dull.

Here's the bottom line: In all walks of life you meet some people who are idiots and some people who are great. It's that simple.

Your school, your wealth, what your parents did etc etc doesn't make any difference. Some lawyers say daft things as do some teachers, policemen, builders, salesmen, scientists - the list goes on.

This isn't class warfare, it's just ignorance which unfortunately is everywhere in all walks of life. The City is no different.

Ignore them, they're not worth the energy.

Wynder -21 Jan 2010 | 11:48

Attitudes like this are not just prevalent in the City. They are here on the High Street in the West Midlands too. I've seen them not just in solicitors but even among support staff!

You don't have to give any of these attitudes credence. You certainly do not have to give people the impression you agree with any of them.

Just hold this thought. Firms depend on good support staff. When you are blessed with the joy of managing staff, even if it is just one secretary or paralegal, you'll get much more out of them when you treat them with the respect that every human being deserves. Your attrition rates should be lower as well. Good luck.

high street solicitor -22 Jan 2010 | 13:58

I think someone is right to say that there are idiots in all walks of life, but the fact is that people in my experience in all walks of life are out of touch from the lives of people different to themselves.

Most lawyers are from well-off backgrounds and are therefore out of touch in many ways. I work at a leading firm that is seen as more blue collar and has more ethnic minorities than its peers - this I think has made it a less out of touch place to work from my perspective as an ethnic minority.

If you have different experiences you will find this ignorance in the City staggering, but don't wind yourself up over it.

Magic Circle Associate -22 Jan 2010 | 14:57

boys will be boys

I think it's ok. Support staff are there for support. If the lawyers or bankers are racist then that's wrong. I myself work in a support role and sometimes I don't mind if I get a bit of a slack and tickle as it puts a smile on my face and reminds me to keep working to get to the top.

regulator -03 Feb 2010 | 16:43