Career Clinic: No luck with TC, should I try lecturing?

Do a LLM at Disneyland Uni, Mickey Mouse School of Law

The brochure for the LLM programme says that after completing a LLM in Donkey Law you are guaranteed a highly paid lecturing position, with lucrative perks such as 50 free rides on Space Mountain. Also, major law firms such as Snow White & Case and Peter Pan & Co are offering top dollar for experts in Donkey Law

Good luck, your money and soul is safe with Disney Uni

Investment Banker -14 Sep 2009 | 13:55

I don't think an LLM would be sufficient for a career in academia, as it is taught rather than research-based. You would be better off doing an MPhil, followed by a PhD. Most lecturers have a doctorate.

Also, I don't think a career in academia = lecturing. Check what you are letting yourself in for before committing to another 3-4 years of study and speak to junior members of staff at the universities you are interested in. Most lecturers spend most of their time doing research, publishing papers and securing funding (without which their job would not exist). Lecturing is usually a side activity, unless you get a lecturer fellowship, but these are usually yearly contract, not the career path.

People who only do lecturing are usually solicitors or barrister (Practising or not).

NQ -14 Sep 2009 | 14:10

My understanding is that you are in the position to apply to teach CPE level, but only qualified solicitors can teach the LPC.

Check with the usual providers for details.

Anonymous -14 Sep 2009 | 14:14

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Sorry to hear about your troubles. However, I presume that to lecture at a university you would most likely need a PHD, not just an LLM. Also, whilst you did well at university getting a 2:1, you didn't exactly shine academically.

Have you thought about teaching law at A level and perhaps doing a PGCE?

samson -14 Sep 2009 | 16:02

My LLM was by research and not taught. One of my LLM intake began lecturing whilst undertaking the LLM. As with anything, when looking at an institution with a view to a research degree you have an opportunity to demonstrate your ability to lecture as part of the process and many places actively encourage you to assist with their program.

You may also want to consider other career options. When first trying to obtain a training contract I ran into people who became stockbrokers, accountants and even bankers as an alternative.

Anonymous -14 Sep 2009 | 16:59

Your biggest challenge will be your attitude. Several applications for training contracts is nowhere near enough to succeed for most people.

You have found work in the law, albeit at the rather shabby end, and dislike it. Now you have a vague idea of lecturing, but no apparent concept of what that entails, apart from more studying. You might not like that either.

Best thing you can do is write off the LPC, treat yourself as a new graduate with a 2.1, and look at the jobs on offer. Or go travelling and try to work out what you actually want to do with your life.

R Sole -14 Sep 2009 | 17:13

So you got a 2.1 and a pass on the LPC but you only made "several" TC applications. I think you need to be submitting a lot more than several. And also, with that small amount, are you sure you drafting has been spot on?

If I were you I would spend the next 7 months focusing on getting a TC instead of doing something for the sake of doing something, like teaching.

Metallica -14 Sep 2009 | 17:31

Legal Counsel

A lot of these comments are ill-informed. I lectured for a while on both the degree, LPC and LLMs. I have good academics, an LLM and was a qualified solicitor. However many other lecturers did not have an LLM and were not practising solicitors. I think a lot depends on the university you're looking at. Approach the universities you are interested in and see if you can assist in some lecturing whilst undertaking at LLM with them. It isn't well-paid work but is a foot in the door if you want to start in lecturing. Good luck.

Anonymous -15 Sep 2009 | 10:18

These days finding a way into lecturing is just as much of a difficult and haphazard process as getting a training contract. Do an LLM by all means, but it won't get you a lecturing job any more than a 2:1 from a good university will get you a TC.

As an aside, unless there is a subject out there you would *enjoy* researching and writing 20,000+ (depending on institution) words on, don't bother. Do it for your own intellectual curiosity if you want (I did), but be under no illusion that an extra qualification that no-one needs would actually get you a job. (It'll add something different to your CV to talk about at interview, but that's about it.)

Finally, although there's no right answer as to how many TC applications one should make, it sounds like you haven't tried nearly hard enough yet. Sorry, but you're giving up too easily.

Nearly NQ -15 Sep 2009 | 11:41

Some truly ignorant comments on here. You do *not* need an MPhil or PHD to teach law, for goodness' sakes. If you don't know the facts, don't post - people are looking for serious advice here.

MATT -15 Sep 2009 | 22:43

To Matt

I did not say having a PhD is a requirement, simply that in all likelihood he would need one.

Of course you do not need an MPhil or PhD or a teaching qualification to lecture, however most jobs offers will require to have one or to show expertise in a field (which a law degree does not give you). The fact is, most job applicants will have these qualifications and I don't believe it would be giving good and fair advice to this person to tell him to go ahead, do an expensive LLM and you'll get a job.

Before calling other people ignorant, please let us know how many people you know who:
- are not/have not been practising solicitors/barristers,
- who do not have a PhD/ are in the process of obtaining one?

My spouse and many of our friends work in academia (despite not in law) and even with a PhD, securing a lectureship is very hard unless you have been a research assistant, have been helping with tutorials and published papers for a few years.

NQ -16 Sep 2009 | 12:30

One of my lecturers on the GDL didn't have a PhD, and hadn't practised law. He might have had an LLM, I'm not sure. He was a lecturer and tutor in Con & Ad.

James -17 Sep 2009 | 11:00

There is a huge difference between being an academic (and doing research and teaching at a university) and teaching the GDL and/or LPC at somewhere like the College of Law. For the latter you wouldn't need anything like a PhD. To teach the GDL you don't even need to be a qualified solicitor. Such roles are relatively well-paid and cushy so I expect also hard to come by...

Annon -17 Sep 2009 | 15:37