Career Clinic: Do lawyers have the social status they used to?

If you are basing your career on 'social status' go and marry a minor royal or buy a peerage, just don't darken the doors of our profession.

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 12:26

A personality would be a good start.

Barry Bogflush -14 Feb 2008 | 12:47

Are you asking about what degree you should do or I what job you should do? Do you want a sociological analysis of the differences between investment banking and the legal profession, or an explanation of a law degree versus PPE - which by the way is only offered at Oxford (which I'm not sure you're capable of on the basis of the ramble you've just posted). Moreover, you sound very young...go to uni, do a half-respected degree and HAVE FUN. While we're on the subject, I'm quite interested what you think the "aspects of education suitable for lawyers" are?!?P.S. Investment banking may seem more exciting but who gets the last laugh when the recession comes round!?

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 12:53

Yawn. Next!

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 13:39

Study something that will result in your growth as a human being so you won't be someone who cares about "social status".

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 14:31

Why are you so concerned about what other (unidentified) people think? If you are going to be a lawyer (or an investment banker, for that matter), a thicker skin is required.

Sooty Speaks -14 Feb 2008 | 14:35

Darling...I think you need to grow up first.

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 15:58

Social status amongst lawyers depends very much on the type of beard worn - opinions anyone...?(And thus the great beard debate resumes...!)

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 16:03

We lawyers are the monkeys. If you want to be an organ-grinder, you've got to be more ambitious.

Associate, US Firm -14 Feb 2008 | 16:09

I did PPE and then converted to become a lawyer. Like being spanked as a child, it never did me any harm and if I had my time again would opt for PPE over law without hesitation, even if I knew I wanted to be a lawyer.

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 16:09

I hear the Big Brother producers are recuiting....

Lawyer without status issues -14 Feb 2008 | 16:11

When I was 6 I wanted to be a lawyer as I thought it was a sure way to buy a Ferrari. Several years post-qualification and I drive an Audi. Grow up! What type of "status" do you requre? A parking space next to the ones for people with babies that says "Solicitor" or is it more of a "I'm a solicitor, therefore I'm middle class"? (I have heard all that before). I know a man who is a mulitmillionaire and is a bricklayer by trade. If we went shopping, who would have the higher "status"? Read Marx.

Budmor -14 Feb 2008 | 16:14

I'm sorry about some of the responses above from practising lawyers, which probably don't help you. I am assuming you are just thinking about careers and you are yet to choose what to study at university. By asking about social status, I believe you were really asking a very general question about one's prospects these days in a legal career. If I am correct, then you need not worry about the stick that lawyers often get from the press, whether it's solicitors who defraud their own clients, barristers who come to court unprepared or judges caught speeding on the M4. There is a tendency in this country for the press to have a go at anyone who is successful in life and, of course, many lawyers are very successful. The law provides a challenging and stimulating career and there are many different types of jobs on offer depending on the kind of law firm you work in, or whether you work in industry or in the public sector or the voluntary sector. Talk to your careers advisor and see if he or she can give you more information. Social status for lawyers is still very high and will continue to be so - so don't worry about that. All the best.

may -14 Feb 2008 | 16:21

It looks as if what you're really thinking about is what to study at University. Law is a good degree and, as degrees go, in terms of intellectual status it sits somewhere in the spectrum between Geography and Physics. No-one is going to accuse you of spending three years colouring in, but no-one is going to call you an intellectual giant either. A law degree is not a prerequisite for a career in law and firms tend to take an equal number of law graduates and non-law graduates who have studied a wide variety of other respectable subjects, as well as Geography. A law degree is an advantage in practice because the training you get makes it easier to handle legal research and argument, but there is not much in it. On the other hand, a law degree can be quite restrictive: there is an assumption that if you have studied law you want to become a lawyer and so you will have some explaining to do if you fancy going into, say, advertising, when you graduate. Personally, I regret taking a law degree as I don't feel it has really helped my career and three years' spent studying Spinoza, Picasso or Shakespeare would have been much more interesting. As to the relative status of different careers, I think the distinction between professions and trades has indeed been eroded over the last 10 years or so and I expect that trend to continue, especially with the advent of Tesco law.

Ex-MC Lawyer -14 Feb 2008 | 16:28

Neither investment banking nor law are exciting. However they are both, compared to most jobs, well paid. Regarding your "I read somewhere" point. So what? Do not believe everything you read. I read that Princess Di may have been murdered by a stun gun (notwithstanding my personal conspiracy theory that she was killed by a drunk driver and because she wasn't wearing a seat belt). Of course, as society changes and evolves different ways of making a living command different levels of respect, but law is still doing okay. Investment banking only commands respect because of the money. If you are a poor investment banker you will command no respect. A poor lawyer will still command some. God knows why though.Also you need to address whether you want social status or money? They are not always aligned. You mention PPE so I assume you are going to Oxford. You would be better to read anything at Oxford (or Cambridge) than law anywhere else. However, if you can read law at either then great although you will have less time for lashing and smashing. PPE would be a much better choice. Play loads of sport, drink and be merry and then do the CPE/GDL (whatever it is called this week) if you want to become a lawyer.

Corporate Slave -14 Feb 2008 | 16:29

is that really the greatest dilemma of the day? much preferred the "can I date my trainee" variety.

associate -14 Feb 2008 | 16:35

I think this could be self-styled top Guardian travel writer Max.

Barry Bogflush -14 Feb 2008 | 16:48

good comments from Budmor above - i second all within. More to the point, you assert very amicably that above all, the role must be challenging, but then waffle on about social status!! if you want to play god, go and be a doctor, otherwise do something you are genuinely interested in. all you are displaying at the moment is a distinct lack of understanding as to what either entail, and what your future goals really are!

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 16:56

Are you talking about social status or money? If you really mean money, then do something else as a job - most lawyers are not rich. Many doctors, dentists, opticians, bankers are. It depends on where you work, whether you make it to the top, whether you are sucessful.You might enjoy having less money and a more interesting career doing something non-law related. I am about to stop practising as a solicitor and become an editor at a legal publisher. I'll never command the City partner salaries - but I might be happier.Study what interests you and what you are good at (hopefully the same thing) and start worrying about what you are going to do with your life later. And don't worry about money or social status. Health and happiness are far more important.

Helen -14 Feb 2008 | 17:29

Whatever you do don't do a law degree. It won't give you a massive advantage in your career and, if anything, it will limit your ability to change your mind in terms of your career. More importantly, it will massively limit the opportunity to really mess around at uni which is what it's all about.I did an English degree - interesting, well-respected and 5 hours of lectures a week! The perfect combo! Of course if you want a first you'll have to work harder than that but you don't need to decide that now.You'll have to work an extra year at law school doing the GDL but in my opinion, it's worth it. Good luck.

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 19:08

show me the money and I will tell your status. Money rules !

Anonymous -14 Feb 2008 | 22:08

Don't do a law degree, it really is dull. As for social status - there does appear to be some as a solicitor. People always seem surprised when they find out I'm a solicitor - apparently I don't live up to the great expectations they have.

Anonymous -15 Feb 2008 | 11:11

My advice is to go to the College of Arms and become a herald - surely Rouge Dragon must die soon and then there will be a vacancy! Then you can worry all day about social status. Don't think that they allow beards, though. Seriously, though - if you really want to know, being a solicitor is "respectable" but not especially high status - it is an irredeemably middle class profession. Barristers like to think that they are a bit posher and some of them ham it up quite a lot, but they are also very middle class. Posh people don't have jobs. I don't know whether they have high status or not - probably, if we're honest. But so do famous people who are famous for absolutely nothing.Can someone remind me why we care about status? I only care about beards. Ah - back to Karl Marx!

Anonymous -15 Feb 2008 | 14:46

Just to add to my earlier comment, if you are indeed just 17 and looking into possible careers, well done for finding some trade press and doing some research. If you haven't met lawyers or investment bankers through your family then it's actually pretty difficult to know what it might be like (as I know from my own experience). Good luck whereever you go.Helen, I assume that means you are joining PLC, so good luck to you too - and I look forward to meeting you!

Ex-MC Lawyer -15 Feb 2008 | 16:15

Actually, you should accept a law place, take a year off, travel the world, have enough laughs to last you a lifetime, find out who you really are and then decide whether you want to keep it (easier to change out of law than into it BTW).

Anonymous -15 Feb 2008 | 16:59

Law isn't dull. I am doing the GDL, which apparently is the worst thing in the world, but I enjoy it. I did History which was fascinating, but it is law's direct relevance that makes the stimulation more than intellectual masturbation. However, PPE is another great choice; I wish I did more economics. PPE is also another really great, classic degree, which you can literally do anything with.

Law Lover -15 Feb 2008 | 22:00

City lawyers and investment bankers are both hated (or envied depending on your point of view) by large sections of society. Bankers are probably hated a bit more because they earn more and it is harder to explain what they do or the utility of their business. I wouldn't go into either career expecting people outside of the City to suddenly see you as more socially respectable. Also, don't just choose PPE because you've heard of the famous, powerful or rich graduates and think me too. Choose it if you actually like the subjects involved.P.S. PPE is not exclusive to Oxford. Durham, Manchester, York to name just a few also offer it.

ex-Oxford PPEist -16 Feb 2008 | 15:20

What a ridiculous question. What you should really be asking is do clients give solicitors the deference they used to. The answer is categorically not. If you think that being a solicitor is a nice job and earns lots of money come and visit a high street practice in the provinces. My developer clients are all much much richer than me. They don't accord me status because I have the title 'solicitor'. They only respect me because they realise that taking my advice allows them to avoid expensive mistakes and eases sales of built dwellings. Choose a career on the basis of what really interests you, not on the social status it may confer, whatever social status means. Life is too short to end up doing a job you don't really enjoy. Good luck.

High Street Solicitor -18 Feb 2008 | 11:06

Depends what jobs you think are seen as conferring "status" these days. Nurses? Paltry pay. Charity workers? Worthy, but ditto. Clergy? The list goes on...All that can be said with relative certainty is that in London, nothing other than self-made multi-millionaire status in your 30s will give you the admiration of your peers that you seek and that you should avoid becoming a journalist or estate agent.

Doogie Inhouser -18 Feb 2008 | 16:28

Forget social status, that's a consideration for law students and confused trainees. Heed the warnings, a law degree may enable you to carry out legal research etc but it's not a pre-requisite to a career in law. The GDL will only add another year to your studying. Everything you need will be covered on the LPC. I personally wished I did politics or history, they seemed to play a substantial part in my law degree.

Anonymous -19 Feb 2008 | 17:02

agree with associate - how about dating your supervisor?

london mid -20 Feb 2008 | 16:20

Presumably the answers to this question will have put you off becoming a solicitor and joining the ranks of the terminally rude and self-satisfied lawyers who have replied, regardless of status.

Anonymous -22 Feb 2008 | 16:13

Hi, i don't really have a comment on this article, but rather a personal question for lawyers or aspiring lawyers. What inspired you to pursue a career in law? or how did you know law is what you were interested in studying?

Anonymous -27 Apr 2008 | 23:04

A BBC poll showed that law was among the "least respected professions" while doctors and nurses were the most respected. Sure you guys earn 10 times more than a fireman but if people don't give you a fraction of the respect and admiration they give him then what's the point? Your life's work is not just a way of earning money - you also leave a legacy behind you when you retire. Most people fondly remember their family doctor and their favourite school teacher, but have you ever heard of anyone looking back at their divorce attorney with nostalgia? Finances are important certainly - but that shouldn't be the sole concern when one is picking a career.

Law-de-dah -20 Jun 2008 | 12:10

If it's social status you're after, the don't become a solicitor. Go to the Bar instead. Plummy accents, being referred to as 'm'learned friend', funny costumes, quaint cloisters - it has it all! ;-) Seriously though, the social status of one's profession is important and it's either hypocritical or naive to say otherwise. I mean, when someone asks you, "What do you do for a living?", would you rather reply "I'm a lawyer" or "I work in Tesco". Actually, come to think of it, in the near future one may be able to say "I'm a lawyer AND I work in Tesco". God help us.

Titus Anonicus -20 Mar 2009 | 11:33

Why is everyone so critical of this person's question? They are trying to get information, so why leave a sarcastic comment with nothing to do with the post? I'm a sophomore in college and I think I've researched almost every career possible. The best advice I recieved was from talking/shadowing that person at his job. So if you think you'd be interested in a career in law, I would suggest talking to a lawyer. Remember, careers like investment banking and law take hard work, skill, and luck like almost anything else to be truly successful. That's why it's important to choose something you can see yourself putting the extra time into, because it intrigues you or interests you in some way.

brandon -07 May 2009 | 05:51