Career Clinic: Black, male and still seeking a City job

Without knowing what is in the recruiter's mind, it is not possible to determine whether there is any prejudice involved. Do, however, keep things in perspective. I am white, male and have been looking for alternative employment for over 6 months. Although I have been invited back for final rounds at really top firms, I have yet to secure that 'dream role'. Like you, I have only ever received positive feedback, been told that I come across really well at interview, etc. The teams in my area are very small and, I guess, firms need to be absolutely sure that the candidate is at the right PQE, personality, etc. before recruiting. I also think that even the most traditional firms are making conscious efforts to recruit people from more diverse backgrounds, especially in light of the pressures applied by clients, such as banks and public bodies, etc.It might just be a matter of time. Don't despair and don't become a victim!

Male solicitor -25 Oct 2007 | 13:46

Can you tell us a little more about your profile? If you are a Finance or Corporate lawyer with good academics and experience, then I would think that there might be something up, since those are areas in which there is a dearth of good candidates. If, however, your specialism is IP, employment or family I can see why City firms would have less appetite irrespective of your race.Looking around City law firms one still finds more black faces in security, catering and cleaning than in legal roles, and very few black faces amongst the partnership. I think that it would be foolish to dismiss completely the notion that there are still some with stereotypical views. However, I do see a change and think that any of the good firms will be keen to get the best talent and will have no regard to irrelevant factors like racial background. We have some very talented black lawyers in my firm who will, I hope, become partners in the next few years. The key to better representation in the legal profession is more outreach at a younger age to convince students at school that law is a potential career for them. Good luck with your continued search.

Anonymous -25 Oct 2007 | 13:58

Mainly corporate/commercial. I'm currently based in the Midlands.

Poster -25 Oct 2007 | 14:13

As a black lawyer, i experienced the same difficulties you talk of, both at training contract stage and whilst climbing through the ranks to senior associate. Many law firms say they judge on merit only but their definition of this indirectly translates into profiles which mirror the background of alot of city partners: privileged white middle class (this 'recruiting in own image' also detriments white lawyers who dont 'fit' that profile). That said, there are lots of partners in firms who, notwithstanding the external push for greater diversity in law, genuinely believe that their firms should be staffed with lawyers from wide ranging racial and academic backgrounds. The only criteria being excellence. Although a challenge, this is what you will have to demonstrate. Your motivation, current skills and future potential should come across both in your CV and in interviews. Stay positive, relaxed but determined and always keep an open mind. You will make it.

Top 20 firm -25 Oct 2007 | 15:26

If your specialisation is corporate, I am surprised by your experience. The MC firms are all looking far and wide for corporate candidates - regularly travelling to places as far away as Australia to recruit associates to these positions. Your level is the most in demand too. My advice would be keep trying. I may be naive, but would hate to think of active discrimination among the top firms. Sometimes its just a matter of whether your personality clicks with the interviewers' etc.

Anonymous -25 Oct 2007 | 15:35

It's not only black lawyers who are discriminated. I am an Indian lawyer and I have felt discriminated when promoting to senior associate. It took me longer to get to senior associate than my white counterparts. Also, I can't understand whats the big deal in going to Australia to recruit lawyers. Why not take lawyers from Singapore, India, Malaysia, they too, inherited from British common law system. Nationality as well plays a key role in recruitment and promotion. Have you ever heard of a Nigerian lawyer who got into partnership? Have you heard of a Malaysian getting awards at The Lawyer awards? The answer is No and its because we young lawyers have inherited from a racist white circle of lawyers who thinks Oxfridge is the only way to fame.

Mr Anon -25 Oct 2007 | 16:25

I can't see why the magic circle would discriminate. They practically want slaves anyway! And by that I mean everyone who works at a junior level is simply a grunt doing basic work - I don't think they would care if they had two heads, they won't after all, see light of day.To think they discriminate is to assume they give a crap about their staff at all, which they don't.

City Thinker -25 Oct 2007 | 16:27

Without telling much about yourself except your ethnicity, it's difficult to answer your question and you seem convinced it is a race issue. My take on it is that if you keep having race in the back of your mind as the root cause of all your problems you won't get very far. Yes, racism is well and alive in the City, but don't perpetuate it by feeling sorry for yourself. Do you know how competitive the City is? Regardless of the shortage of corporate legal "talent" in the City, don't think working at a MC or top City firm is like applying for a job at your local supermarket. There is a recruitment foodchain at work, MC firms tend to hire assistants from MC firms/Top 10 firms, Top 10 firms in turn hire from the London offices of regional firms (DLA, Eversheds etc) and so forth. Since you haven't even worked in London, you shouldn't be too ambitious and play the racism card if Skadden Arps say no to a lawyer that has worked at a high street law firm in the midlands. Stop this negative self-pity, respect the recruitment foodchain and work yourself up the ladder.

Investment Banker -25 Oct 2007 | 16:53

I think City Thinker should immediately have a quick chat with their employment department regarding that last post!

Bystander -25 Oct 2007 | 17:11

I suspect the prejudice at work is not so much racist but provincialist. The fact is that City firms tend to look down on both the training and post-qualification experience available at regional firms. This is particularly true at non-magic circle firms that try to polish up their brands by picking up magic circle qualifieds at around your level of experience with the offer of a better lifestyle and more realistic partnership opportunities. The question your interviewers are really asking is: why didn't you take a training contract in the City if that was where you wanted to be? You need to make a convincing case that doesn't make you look like a small time City reject. You also need to make sure you are making the most of the strengths of your position without making them wonder whether you know what you are letting yourself in for.

Ex-MC Lawyer -25 Oct 2007 | 17:15

I agree with the last post... being black and female ... it can be tough but you can't afford to focus on the racial issues or you might miss the real point. It is competitive at all levels and will require perseverance! You can't afford to become dejected now .. who knows what is round the corner! Good luck!

Trainee, Magic Circle -25 Oct 2007 | 17:17

Investment banker's advice, as always, is spot on!

Male solicitor -25 Oct 2007 | 17:26

There are some very questionable hiring patterns based on race in the City and it's much more complex than low overall levels of non-white lawyers. In itself, does being from an ethnic minority stop you getting hired? No. Actually, employers are almost biased in favour of some groups. But there are other groups - and black men would be in that group - that are far more likely to suffer discrimination from law firms. It's amazing how supposedly highly competitive careers are brilliant are replicating exactly the same kind staff.

Anonymous -25 Oct 2007 | 17:39

Investment Banker, in usual charismatic fashion, does have a point. Racism in law firms is alive no doubt, but that shouldnt put you off. What is also at play is regional and intra-firm snobbery. The list is long, depending on other peoples stereotypes, insecurities etc but dont be disheartened. You can either look at all the negatives or the positives. Being aware of the former while focusing on the latter is how you will succeed in London.

Black Senior Associate, Top 20 firm -25 Oct 2007 | 18:09

You don't really give too many details. Do you have As and Bs at A-level, 2-1 from a traditional uni, first time passes and no 'gaps' in you CV? Are you in the regions at say DLA, Pinsents, Eversheds etc or is it more Smith & Co? Also, are you aiming at MC, Top 10, mid-tier or lower? Practice area?

Associate, mid-tier -25 Oct 2007 | 19:15

Interestingly, I think the issue of recruiting Australian lawyers is an example of how inadvertently many law firms are discriminating against non-white, even white British lawyers. Australian lawyers tend to be highly qualified and are willing to work hard with no expectation of partnership. It is therefore in many firms' interests to actively hire those candidates. However, by doing so, the amount of vacancies available to UK-qualified lawyers, including black and Asian lawyers, is minimised in an already highly competitive market. Something should be seriously done about the above discriminatory selection policy in favour of white Antipodean lawyers. For example, I recently attended an MC interview where I was told that the vacancies had arisen because many Australian candidates were returning home - as a British Asian lawyer, that opportunity may never have arisen if those candidates had decided to stay longer in the UK!

Ex-City lawyer -25 Oct 2007 | 20:17

I cant believe in 2007 we are still talking about racism, especially among lawyers. Those found guilty of racism should not be suspended but disbarred from practice. I recently heard of a major law firm based in the channel islands where there is not one single black lawyer! Could you believe this?Thank you very much. Elvis has left the building....

Elvis -26 Oct 2007 | 09:56

To associate mid-tier - academics in that ballpark. Currently with a decent-sized commercial firm in the regions. Aiming for corporate - City mid-tier or top 10.

Poster -26 Oct 2007 | 10:43

The problem is that we have well crafted anti-discrimination laws and it's in place just for its beauty whilst being largely silent and inactive. If you are victim of racism, its simple - just prepare a strong case and gather all your documentary evidence, witnesses and any tape-recording. Register a complaint with the Solicitors Regulation Authority and make sure also that it's not time-barred. The solicitor concerned and yourself who then be given a chance to explain the situation whether discrimination occurred through recruitment, after recruitment or during working hours. A victim of discrimination has a panoply of actions he could take to seek remedy and there are appropriate disciplinary actions that can be taken against the solicitor. Solicitors (associates/senior associates/partners) are all severely under the scrutiny of their regulator and you could also check the law society website list of disciplinary actions being taken against unprofessional solicitors every day.As for Australian lawyers, well I think they need more training before they come here in the UK. Having a double degree and working in Australia does not make them more competent than British-educated lawyers, and I would personally recruit a US-educated lawyer having US experience compared to a double degree-holder Aussie. It's because US lawyers have got more US transactional experience than someone coming down under.

Chandler from US firm -26 Oct 2007 | 11:18

In my experience, overt racism is virtually non-existent - there tends to be some unconscious racism e.g. people who always tend to favour a certain sort of person and probably aren't aware of the repeated pattern of discrimination they engage in. The largest law firms, which have large HR departments, longstanding diversity policies and lots of non-British lawyers, tend to be the most meritocratic and least racist. I work in a magic circle firm and I've never seen or heard a racist word or any racial bias by any partner - its a very multi-cultural, multi-ethnic firm. Medium and small firms have more of a problem as there isn't a large HR department with the authority of a powerful managing partner and so the prejudices of some partners hold sway. If you are a regional lawyer, then getting into a medium-sized City firm rather than a magic circle or international one will be easier in terms of your experience but those are the firms most likely to have a racism problem. I would keep plugging away (with both top 10 and medium-sized firms) if I were you, and don't let thoughts of racism deter you. It is a competitive job market and it really is a matter of finding the right 'fit'; it might very well not be racism - in that respect Investment Banker is right - but his glib attitude is typical of someone who hasn't suffered racism. If you ever have, it's a very disheartening experience and you understandably are on the look-out for it, so I'm sympatheticP.S. London offices of US firms that are under tight control from their home office are very clued up on diversity - offices where they make their own decisions independent of the US not so much. Try some of those US firms.

non-white Magic Circle associate. -26 Oct 2007 | 11:34

Elvis, SO WHAT??? Maybe no black guys applied? Maybe some did, but they weren't all that good that time? Juding a firm by quota is the worst kind of short-sightedness. Shut the door on the way out.

Buddy Holly -26 Oct 2007 | 11:35

The accusations of racism are blurring the real issue that whether we like it or not, you have to work twice as hard to move from the regions to London, especially to a top 10 firm. There is an inherent snobbery about regional firms and the training they offer, which after working in both magic circle, other top 10 firm and now a regional firm, I believe is somewhat justified. A 2:1 and decent A-levels is not necessarily enough.

associate, mid tier -26 Oct 2007 | 11:59

You say you do corporate and commercial. This can mean a number of things - for instance, the top 10 do very little commercial contracts work that would be found lower down the food-chain. If you want to go into a top 10 firm to do corporate law then they want decent M&A or corporate finance experience. They also expect very good academics a string of A grades at A level and a 1st or 2.1 from a very good university - they are looking for consistent outperformers. You may just not have these things and in the last few months, given the credit crunch, the corporate departments are hiring less and being more picky so you may just not be making the grade. Ask the recruiters to get real feedback on you and see what you are doing wrong in interviews and see where you need to put in more work. But whatever you do, don't raise the race angle with the recruitment consultants - they may be less likely to put you forward if they think you may start making "trouble".

Corporate in house lawyer, ex-MC -26 Oct 2007 | 12:01

Speaking of Australian lawyers, I agree it is sometimes. Not only are they favoured in the selection process, but they are often given serious boosts in seniority and thereby leapfrogging their British counterparts.I am not sure that Australian lawyers are only hired because they don't expect partnership - several MC firms have a number of Australian partners. These are often people who have come over to the UK with the intention of returning after a couple of years, but have stayed on indefinitely.There should be no discrimination towards anyone. If an Australian is the best person for the job, then the Australian should get the job, simple as that. There are many Australians in MC firms I have come across who fall into this very category and I think would be well on track to partnership at their respective firms if they so desired it.However, the firms need to work on ensuring that it is always the best candidate that gets the job, regardless of race, background etc - the future of legal profession depends on it.As for the original poster, I too would say don't give up. You sound as though you are highly competent and would interview well. The market is slowing down a bit for corporate lawyers so I think perseverance is the key!

Anonymous -26 Oct 2007 | 12:44

You say you are just wondering if others have had similar experiences to you and that you are a black man. Irrespective of your race, this forum exists to help those seeking guidance, and not those seeking apparently corroborative stories from others that support some notion that senior lawyers with hiring responsibilities are racists. I am coloured, I should point out, and whilst I have had rejections, I have also had successes. Even at the MC firm where I was for 7 years, I always felt that the fact that I was different from most in terms of upbringing, cultural background and ability to speak a second native language fluently put me in good stead on many occasions. It is time legalweek introduced a moderator, and vet articles being posted in the first place. Your query may have been casually made, but it is really quite pointless and potentially dangerous too, not just for you but others. Finally, the message is repeated here in connection with many different queries from jobseekers, but I stress it is a very competitive market out there. The best candidates with 1st class honours don't always get a job at the MC firms. When you said your academics are in the "ballpark" mentioned by another poster, i.e. grades A and B at A level, 2:1 or better at a good traditional university, did you mean yes or no?

may -26 Oct 2007 | 13:05

Legal Week does vet and moderate the articles.

Legal Week -26 Oct 2007 | 13:11

Buddy Holly, it seems you are from the law firm I was referring to. I know five black lawyers who applied, two had more experience and skills than the non-black. The non-black got the job despite all that. racism or incompetent I dont know but the law firm pretend to have antidiscrimination policy. Its only on paper. The Association of Black lawyers is taking severe action against this law firm and racist languages used. Shut the windows on your way out.

Elvis -26 Oct 2007 | 13:18

It seems now that some readers want to target and blame Legal Week from bringing this racism issue. Legal Week is a magazine for lawyers, we are living in a democratic society and we black lawyers have the right to voice out how we are being discriminated. Its only the white racist out there who are blaming Legal Week whereas there are other white lawyers who are open to discuss this issue. So please stop blaming legal week for this forum on racism. If you dont like to read then click the topright hand icon of this page and leave.

Anthony -26 Oct 2007 | 13:25

A frank and open discussion on race is mostly always emotive. However. I do not see any problem with discussing it. The darker side of human nature is generally uncomfortable to hear but its a reality alot of people face. May's posts are usually very supportive and positive but the tone in this post is different. Has this touched something in you?

Anonymous -26 Oct 2007 | 14:22

Perhaps this article has touched me because I am coloured (something that Anthony has failed to observe) and it seemed to me that blaming one's race is not the way forward. Whether you're black, brown, yellow or plain green, you should look hard at your academic ability and other personal qualities and decide whether getting to a MC or top 10 firm in London is a realistic expectation. It seems irresponsible to give words of encouragement to someone with no realistic possibility of getting in to such a firm. Imagine the wasted time, effort and all that anguish. Instead, you might focus and use all that effort where you are and focus on how you can make a success of it there, or at a firm in a similar league. Sorry if this sounds like it's not positive advice, but actually it is.

may -26 Oct 2007 | 16:05

Elvis: That's as may be but that doesn't change the fact that a lack of black employees is not in itself evidence of discrimination within a firm; the implication of your 1st post.

Buddy Holly -26 Oct 2007 | 16:12

I agree that race should not be a relevant factor in assessing recruitment practices and that merit is key. However, as pointed out above, the inherent bias in the recruitment system towards a particular kind of candidate needs to be looked at. It is perhaps slightly naive to assume that merit alone is sufficient to be successful. I also agree with the comment in relation to the more "enlightened" recruitment practices of larger firms as compared to smaller firms, who are much more subject to the idiosyncrasies of partners. There should definitely be more of an effort from firms to recruit more "home-grown" talent rather than cherry picking Australian lawyers fed up of life down under.

ex-City lawyer -27 Oct 2007 | 22:43

My experience of recruiting at a major firm is that such firms are more than keen to get good non-white candidates. There is a huge amount of pressure to demonstrate diversity commitment nowadays that good non-white candidates are snapped up very eagerly. If there is racism, I suspect that it would operate to ensure that the good black candidate gets the job ahead of the good white candidate. In any case it's all pretty irrelevant at the moment - firms are desperate to get good lateral hires, so they frankly are unlikely to care what they look like as long as they are capable and get the work done.

In house PE lawyer -29 Oct 2007 | 13:26

A lot of people here are talking about 'non-white' in general or 'ethnic minority' as some kind of amorphous whole. The poster is referring to something specific - if black men suffer discrimination. I have seen firms that were falling over themselves to hire ethnic minorities and yet black men are nowhere to be found. How many black partners are there at City law firms? Very, very few.

Anonymous -29 Oct 2007 | 13:37

As a black male who secured more than one offer and accepted an offer at an MC firm, I am living proof that race does not have to be fatal to one's success. That said, I, like the vast majority of everyone who made applications, faced rejection to get here. I am not so naive as to think that discrimination does not exist. I have experienced the most blatant forms of it in my life. However, I firmly believe that to let thoughts of 'it's because I'm black' creep into your head--on no evidence beyond the absence of a TC--is self-defeating.To the poster, your concern appears genuine. However, I implore you not to allow your frustration to torpedo your effort. The time spent lamenting an unfair playing field is better spent putting yourself in the best position possible to succeed.

MC TC -30 Oct 2007 | 12:25

Lots of people don't target the right firms or approach them in the wrong way and get disheartened. Get yourself a good agent who helps you make a more focussed approach and targets firms who have a need for your area of expertise and it will become much easier.

Associate, US Firm -30 Oct 2007 | 16:34