Career Clinic: Will studying outside of London hit my City hopes?

I would ditch the LLB place and go straight into the GDL. Alternatively if you really want an English LLB in addition to your Canadian one then I would say go to Birmingham - this has a MUCH better rep than City - just look at the league tables.

Anonymous -02 Apr 2009 | 09:55

I would choose Birmingham above City University - reputation matters more than location when it comes to degrees. If you are still keen on training in the City after graduation then you could do your LPC at one of the institutions there.I agree with the previous poster that it may be better to go straight onto the GDL rather than do the LLB, unless you are required to take this route?

Anonymous -02 Apr 2009 | 10:43

I'd be inclined to do the GDL but the LLB may be of more use abroad. Studying outside London is no problem at all, but you need to choose a decent red-brick university (or Oxbridge) (as indeed you would need to in London as well - not all universities are equal).

Helen -02 Apr 2009 | 10:44

If you study at City you will be unemployable at a leading firm as it is a polytechnic in all but name. University of Birmingham is so-so and you might well struggle to get in many good firms. Stick to Oxbridge, University of London (only the core colleges) and, at a push, places like Bristol or Nottingham for law.

EB -02 Apr 2009 | 11:02

"Stick to Oxbridge" - Yeah, like it's so easy to get in. Just like that, as Tommy Cooper used to say.

Anon -02 Apr 2009 | 11:58

If you do the GDL and LPC at the College of Law (which has a London branch) you will get an LLB - they have been awarding this since 2006, apparently. You'll need to do the LPC before starting a training contract in any case, so this might be a good option for you. Check out the College of Law website. You would also be eligible for funding for the LPC (or both courses) if you secure a TC with a firm which offers it. London is a great place to be - enjoy it!

Annon -02 Apr 2009 | 12:01

I am the person who asked the question. Just to further clarify my situation: It is important that I complete the LLB rather than the GDL, although I do want to secure a training contract (hopefully with a City firm that will pay for my LPC). I want to begin this September and thus need to stick with these LLB choices as I did not apply to the GDL. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the GDL does not offer several electives that I am interested in, including Company/Corporate and Employment Law courses. The LLB, however, does. This was another reason why I chose it. Thanks very much for your help so far.

Original Poster -02 Apr 2009 | 12:46

You can do an LLB at BPP. All you do is take the GDL and then do two additional modules in the summer and this 'tops up' your GDL to an LLB. There is quite a wide choice of modules I believe. Plus they are desperate for applicants, particularly outside of London and you can still apply now. The fees are so much lower you would be mad to study in London, you are basically paying for the higher rent of the BPP building, not to mention the higher living costs.

Anonymous -02 Apr 2009 | 14:03

If you don't need a work permit go to London, City. You'll have more fun.

Anonymous -02 Apr 2009 | 14:47

I don't need a work permit, I am an EU citizen. Also, I was hoping that choosing the two-year LLB will give me time to get vacation placements etc as I have no law-related work experience. My undergraduate degree is in Business and Human Resources so my work experience only involves 6 months in this area on an international level.

Original Poster -02 Apr 2009 | 15:36

Birmingham uni is so-so - it won't help you to get a TC. Like others said, try to apply to Oxford or Cambridge or other more decent universities like Warwick, Bristol, Nottingham etc. GDL and LPC at BPP or College of Law is a good option. You can get a LLB if you do both of them at one institute. If you are keen to get a vac scheme, you should start applying now though many firms reduce the number of vac scheme students they take due to credit crunch. However, it is still worth a try. I am an international student. I did my GDL and LPC outside London and I still managed to get a TC in a top 20 firm. I was interviewed by 12 City/magic circle firms and I was offered 3 TCs at the end.

Anonymous -02 Apr 2009 | 18:19

The reason I chose City and Birmingham is because the Senior Status LLB is only offered at a very limited number of universities. Oxbridge doesn't offer it and I don't have the perfect grades to get there even if they did. (I also have offers from Leicester and Kent.) It was an issue of having limited choices but wanting to do that degree. At this point it is too late for me to apply to the GDL and I know I want to do the Senior Status degree...

Original poster -02 Apr 2009 | 19:33

Birmingham Uni isn't so-so, it's a well-regarded red-brick university. Leicester and Kent are both fine, you just want to steer clear of ex-polys, with the possible exception of Kingston and Nottingham Trent.

Helen -03 Apr 2009 | 11:22

Thanks Helen. I was also given an offer by Kingston, but thought that City Uni ranked higher, in Law at least?

Original Poster -03 Apr 2009 | 12:08

It isn't too late to apply for the GDL: ring the places up and talk to them. The reason that the GDL doesn't have the electives you have mentioned is that English training isn't structured in that way. The GDL teaches you the fundamentals of the English legal system: contract, tort, land, criminal etc.; the LPC covers the more "commercial" aspects: corporate/commercial, finance etc. You will get to do those subjects but on the LPC, not the GDL. Unless you will need the LLB when (if) you ever went home, I strongly recommend taking the advice to do the GDL. You are otherwise committing yourself to and possibly paying for three years of extra study rather than two, and it will make no difference to your ability to get a training contract, where your first degree is the most important factor. While on that subject, if you haven't already started applying for training contracts, you need to do so straight away as firms recruit two or more years in advance.

Associate -03 Apr 2009 | 12:09

Studying outside London at Oxbridge or a major redbrick (e.g. Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester, Nottingham) will not harm you... having a beard will....

Anonymous -03 Apr 2009 | 12:36

Hi Associate, I am actually a bit confused by the entire TC application process in this case. Assuming I WERE to do the two-year LLB, would I not have to start applying for TCs in late Autumn 2009? (Since I would hopefully be starting a TC in 2012 after finishing the two years degree followed by the one year LPC)...Thanks for your help.

Original Poster -03 Apr 2009 | 13:05

It seems you've aleady made up your mind to go ahead studying the 2 years LLB then why bother asking people's opinion?

Anonymous -03 Apr 2009 | 15:43

I did a two-year "senior status" LLB. The drop out rate exceeded 50% and to get a decent grade required man-killing effort - you are squeezing a normal degree into 22 months of study, with no "vacation" to speak of - don't think you'll have time to be doing Vac schemes. If I had my time again, I'd have taken the extra year and gone to a better Uni.

Anonymous -03 Apr 2009 | 16:27

My original question was not about deciding whether to do the 2-year LLB or not, but rather about which university to choose when I do this degree and whether being outside London would affect my career prospects. I also stated before that the GDL is not an option for me.

Original Poster -03 Apr 2009 | 16:54

The question being asked is whether or not to do the 2 year LLB at City or Birmingham. The poster is not asking for advice on whether to do the LLB or the GDL.

Anonymous -03 Apr 2009 | 17:26

City is well regarded but I found the uni a bit soulless. Birmingham is a good campus uni and a nice city as well and you may enjoy yourself there. Have you asked any graduate recruitment depts at law firms for their opinion? As for the GDL, only do this if you do not intend to return to Canada. Most countries do not recognise a diploma route into the legal profession and the UK is unique in offering this route but it will prevent you from returning home to practise law should you ever wish to do so. Two-year LLB is harder but safer though you should clarify if it is sufficient study to be recognised in Canada.

Teacher -04 Apr 2009 | 09:04

What nobody has mentioned thus far is the current state of the London legal scene. It has been pretty much impossible for anyone (even from such places as Oxbridge, UCL, LSE etc) to get vacation schemes this year as many have been pulled. People with training contracts are being forced to defer for a couple of years etc. Most law firms have shrunk by at least 10%. This basically means that for the years 2011, 2012 and 2013 there will be virtually no TC action. If there is anything, it will likely to be the Oxbridge/Russell Group/other top university applicants. Speaking for myself, I am now applying for vacation schemes to third-ranking firms, having found the MC/Silver Circle so oversubscribed as to be impossible to penetrate. What do others think?

peter bartwell -04 Apr 2009 | 10:20

To the original poster - first of all, the reputation of your university is not going to be the be-all and end-all in the deciding factor as to whether you will get a training contract. I attended an ex-poly university, which only changed its status about three years ago, and I got a training contract at a top ten law firm in the City beginning in 2011. Whether you go to university in London or outside of it is again not important in securing a training contract. What is important is the level of your grades and the substance of the person that is applying for a training contract.Having said that though, I would go to Birmingham University because it is far superior to City University and as you have the choice, why not go to the better university?

Ex - Poly -04 Apr 2009 | 16:53

I don't know about the rankings, but I do know there was a lady from Kingston Uni in my intake when I was a trainee at Allen & Overy. So I'd say it's reasonably well regarded by the magic circle - she was the only one from an ex-poly (first degree, the LPC is different).

Helen -05 Apr 2009 | 18:35

You're right to ask questions and The City Law School's Graduate Entry LLB (the name for the two-year LLB) gives students the chance to gain vacation placements or training contracts at City law firms because of its great links to industry and fantastic graduate employment rate. The University is ranked fifth in the last Sunday Times University Guide for student employability and according to the 2010 Complete University Guide, City is ranked tenth in the graduate prospects rating, for graduates undertaking further study or employment six months after graduation. If you would like to find out more about The City Law School and its Graduate Entry LLB then please feel free to come to the University's Undergraduate Open Day on Saturday 27 June (www.city.ac.uk/opendays) where students and staff will be on hand to answer any questions that you may have.

Susan Nash, Acting Dean, City University London -12 May 2009 | 14:32

University of Birmingham is far better than "so-so"

The two posters who called Birmingham 'so-so' and then proceeded to recommend the likes of Bristol and Nottingham may care to take a little look at the University League Tables for uni law schools... University of Birmingham is very highly regarded, the original redbrick university, and currently rated as the 6th/7th best law school by the Times and the Guardian. It has excellent links with good City law firms, and I know many trainees in City firms who studied there.

LawWithFrenchGraduate -15 Feb 2010 | 18:15