"I am a female at a international law firm who will be qualifying next March. I have a few years' work experience in property and really enjoy this area of law. However, I have found the people in the real estate department to be non-inspirational and socially dull. The corporate team, on the other hand, were dynamic, extremely bright and interesting and I also really enjoyed it, yet the hours are obviously much longer.
"To make matters harder, I am currently on secondment and think that realistically, after cutting my teeth in private practice for a number of years, I might like to move back in-house.
"So what to choose? Corporate - which gives you more options, but the hours are a slog and family life will take a back seat if I decide to stay in private practice; or real estate - which I like the work and has a better work/life balance, but colleagues are worse and there are less options if I want to go in-house. I change my mind daily!"
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What’s your absolute priority? Family life or enjoying your job? If the former, I would normally say avoid corporate at all costs as real estate would almost certainly give you better hours in private practice. Having said that, as a cynical early 30s finance lawyer, I am increasingly of the view that private practice as a whole is inherently incompatible with a decent family life – unless you consider it acceptable to go down the route of round-the-clock childcare, logging on late at night when you are exhausted, changing your family plans to fit around a completion… I would stick it in corporate for a year or so (seeing as you like the people, which should make it bearable in the short term) and then move in-house as soon as you can to broaden your experience and give yourself as many options as possible for the future. If you get into a general corporate/commercial role, your work could cover all sorts of areas including real estate, so picking the right in-house role will obviously be key. Furthermore, if family life is your priority, it probably matters even less if you really love your job as you might end up working part-time at some point, so all the more reason not to go for real estate private practice in the short-term. If, on the other hand, real estate is your passion, then it is not a bad option and probably one of the more manageable areas in private practice; but it’s all relative - private practice is rarely a truly family friendly option.
Its a no-brainer that property will be an easier ride, but other than that, the overriding observation is that you'll very much struggle going in-house if you are looking to do it as an easy option. Senior corporate and commercial lawyers in FTSE100 companies will be slogging away all hours of the day and night. You quite rightly won't get a look in if you give the slightest inkling that you're looking for a better work/life balance.
Perhaps re-qualify as a school teacher, as all those holidays should keep you happy.
Get real, girl! Fancy dithering over choosing real estate which is something you enjoy, and coporate, which is something you don't, just because the people are more of a laugh! There are dull lawyers, be they corporate or property! There are interesting and witty lawyers spread across all disciplines. Think long term, and go for what you really want. Don't base your decision on trying to avoid being stuck with boring colleagues.
CityGirl is right, don't base your decision on the people you're going to be work with... teams change, move, particularly in the current climate, whereas the discipline you choose will be with you for a lot longer. Qualify into an area you enjoy - if the team doesn't perk up, then move!
Don't choose based on people as people move on. Lots of firms probably have more interesting people in their property teams so you could always move firms later if you want livelier people. Go for the work you enjoy with an eye on future career prospects at the same time. Switching roles is rarely impossible if you can come up with a good explanation for your new direction.
I wholeheartedly agree you should do what you enjoy, but... given how many of the city firms are making people in their real estate practices redundant, I'd keep you eyes open as to the (relative) safety (to the extent any of us are safe!!)? That said, I'd still follow your heart, but try to keep 'cosy' with the corporate crowd - fair to say they'll virtually always be looking for people with pulses, should real estate prove to be a shorter spin than you hope!
In my experience it is pretty rare to have genuine friendships at work - and even less so in your actual team. You sound like a lively and fun person and I would bet that you have plenty of solid friendships outside of the office, so why worry too much about having riotous colleagues (who, at the end of the day, are just that - colleagues)? If you go for real estate you can still socialise with the corporate mob (the only disadvantage being that you'll be getting to the bar about three hours before they do), but also spend the day doing work you really enjoy. Bear in mind that in-house legal can be a pretty lonely place -socialising with business colleagues is off the agenda (for obvious reasons) and the teams are generally smaller than in practice, and typically located in offices which are in either industrial hinterlands or those town centres which we all know and mock (sorry, love) - Slough, Swindon, Milton Keynes, etc. Not many cocktail bars there, and very little after-work culture given that most people will be commuting a fair distance and/or eager to get home at a decent hour. Basically, I'd say that if you're looking for a bit more of a work/life balance then that's probably because you've already got a pretty full life and don't need to depend on your work to give you one. Treat the job as a job by doing something which inspires you and in which you are genuinely interested, and then leave 'on time' and enjoy your real life. Never worry too much about who the people around you are, as they're going to chop and change over time anyway. Good luck!!
What are the obvious reasons you can't socialise with business colleagues if you are an in-house lawyer? I've had non-lawyer friends and although I no longer work in-house, am still in touch with some of them.
..... I would imagine it's because they're usually your clients? Not exactly appropriate (though depends on the set up of the organisation I suppose).
On the people point, what do you want from your work? A career or a social life? On the career point, if you want to move in-house solely for better hours, then do remember that in-house is not as cushy as it is made out to be.
I am a female working for a bluechip company. I am due to be qualified next September and face a real dilemma. I spent three months of my training with an international city firm and I am unsure where I would like to go after qualifying. The biscuits at the city firm were very tasty and in plentiful supply, whereas there are no biscuits available at my in-house role. Instead I sometimes have to eat fruit or nuts as snacks and often have to walk all the way to the canteen or local shops where chocolate and/or biscuits are very overpriced. I realise eating too many biscuits could cause me to become obese and could result in losing my slender figure but by that stage I will be so stinking rich I can go to Brazil every six months for liposuction. On the one hand I want to stay where I am and enjoy the variety of snacks available but on the other hand I really really miss the digestive biscuits and chocolate chips. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much for this quote:
"The corporate team, on the other hand, were dynamic, extremely bright and interesting"
I haven't had such a great laugh in ages. Thanks again; you've made my weekend!
To Anonymous: I was in almost exactly the same position a few years ago, with the same dilemma. I chose private practice. Not only have the biscuits been amazing, but there are lattes and cappucinos on tap, an in-house restaurant, an open bar in every department and gourmet food hand delivered in the evening. I am now very, very fat. Run, while you can. Run for the hills.
Let's see if you still think your fellow corporate associates are "dynamic, extremely bright and interesting" when you have spent 10 days and nights solid with them closing a deal.
As an associate in the tax department of a mid-tier City firm, "extremely bright" is not how I would describe the majority of my corporate colleagues. Property or corporate, as an outsider there is little difference.
So it's ok to to socialise with your clients if they are outside the firm to schmooze them, but not if you are in-house and they are inside the firm? My old boss in-house told us not to call our colleagues clients anyway, they were colleagues.
Having only done a couple of vacation schemes, I understand what you mean. I spent a week in debt finance and it was enough to make me realise it was terrible - gently rewording a massive document from about 40 pages down to about 25, then doing it for 11 others! Argh! I wanted to die right there. I then went to spend a week in property, however, and it was varied, interested and independent. I liked it, but it felt like I was in a town planning office, not a City law firm - the people were boring as hell! In my case, though, the solution is easy: I am going wherever the hours are lowest, since I love my wife and friends and want to enjoy my time on earth. Screw wage slavery!
...... I don't think the poster is talking about having people to schmooze or socialise with on a superficial level - more who she can get on with as friends, as true colleagues and team mates? If you're in-house counsel, you can't be best of mates with colleagues/clients (or whatever you want to call them) from the business - it just doesn't work. I've had two in-house roles now, and have a number of friends in other organisations, where getting over-friendly with the buiness people would be extremely frowned upon.
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