In association with
Published: 07/07/2008 13:04
Email article | Comment on this article | Sign up to News Alerts
And remember, Career Clinic is only as good as the questions we receive, so email your career conundrums to community@legalweek.com.
When you are applying for training contracts you are up against hundreds of people with law degrees. I have a science degree and have just completed the law conversion. In my experience I have found that being different has never been a disadvantage. In fact you will probably find that it will prove to be an advantageous talking point.
Posted by: GDL Student on 07 Jul 2008
No, there should not be any preferential treatment. The key requirement will be to have a 2:1 or above. If you take a non-law degree, you will need to spend an extra year studying for the diploma in law before being able to begin the legal practice diploma or the Bar Vocational Course. Some employers prefer people who have read something other than law.
Posted by: Tone on 07 Jul 2008
Why not take advantage of the system at Cambridge which allows you to switch between subjects (typically at the end of your first year)? So you could do one year Land Economy or Economics and then two years Law and still get the exemptions for your core law subjects so you don't have to sit the CPE. Switching to law shouldn't be a problem provided you get a 2:1 or higher in your first-year exams but you could talk informally about it to your proposed college. I know one ex-colleague at my magic circle law firm who did one year Land Economy and then switched to Law for his last two years.
Posted on: 07 Jul 2008
Anyone that tells you it would be a hindrance to mix things up a bit is mad - it's a great idea. I did law with a language at university and it really helped liven up what is otherwise quite a dry degree - certainly all my friends studying straight law were very jealous when I was swanning off to language classes, and doing my year abroad! You do need to take into account the fact that it will probably add a year to your studies (either because you will not have a qualifying law degree, so will have to do the GDL, or because your law degree will take four years rather than three to accommodate the extra subjects). Overall though, if you can afford it - both financially and in terms of time - it's a great idea, it can really help set you apart from the crowd of other 2:1 drones applying for Training Contracts. Good luck!
Posted by: Law with French on 07 Jul 2008
Land Economy is generally laughed at as a course for not very bright people who want to row.
Posted on: 07 Jul 2008
Generally, it doesn't matter what degree you take as a law degree has no practical relevance to life in a City law firm. However, you may meet some prejudice from Cambridge graduates if you study Land Economy as it is regarded (rightly or wrongly) as a less serious subject, populated by serious sportsmen who are either not bright enough to get into Cambridge on their academic merits or who need to spend more time on the training field than in lectures. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Posted by: PE Executive on 07 Jul 2008
It would definitely not be a disadvantage to have a mixed degree. I did an English Literature degree and then did the GDL and LPC and I have never felt at a disadvantage having taken that route. Depending on how much law you cover on your course you may not have to do the GDL at all or you may be exempt from certain parts of it - it depends on which modules you choose to do on your course. I think it can be a real advantage to be able to bring something else to the table.
Posted on: 07 Jul 2008
I did a music degree and managed to convince a number of firms to offer me a training contract and pay for the GDL and LPC. Study what you enjoy and then convert afterwards - it's only an extra year.
Posted by: Associate, National Firm on 07 Jul 2008
"I would like to be a lawyer (but I do not want to do law)". A future "I'm trapped in corporate and hate it" post in seven years' time ?
Posted by: Regional Solicitor on 07 Jul 2008
In the UK, a non-law degree is not in general a hindrance and may be an advantage. That said, 'Land Economy' does sound a bit second-rate, even if it is from Cambridge - it sounds like something you would study at Cambridge Polytechnic. Study something you enjoy above all, but if you could bring yourself to enjoy something more traditional you would be doing your career a favour. Not having a law degree can be a limitation if you want to work overseas, as some countries can be a bit restrictive.
Posted by: US Partner on 07 Jul 2008
I did a non-law degree and then the conversion course and, if you can afford it, I'd recommend it. Law undergraduates seemed to have had a far worse time than I did, were too vocationally focused too soon and generally were rather conservative and not very inspiring. Maybe that makes them good practical and commercial lawyers - I happen to think not (and I'll be shot down in flames for saying so). Be aware that while there is very little prejudice among potential employers you will occasionally get the odd person (and you know who you are) who thinks that unlesss you studied set-off as an undergraduate you can't possibly be a decent practising lawyer. All I can say, in response, is that I know who had more fun and who finds it easier to relate to their clients!
Posted by: City Woman on 07 Jul 2008
I would say a mix is an advantage as it gives you a broader academic training and looks more interesting on your CV. Many firms will prize your Oxbridge degree so there should be little objection. Will you have to do the post-grad conversion course after graduating? Does the course include all the key elements of a law degree to avod the conversion course? Many large firms will sponsor you through both postgrad years but a conversion course will add a year to your training. Have you considered switching tripos at Cambridge to pick up the relevant papers in law? Lots of people used to switch to law part-way through a degree in the 1990s. Good luck.
Posted by: Another Cantab graduate who mixed subjects on 07 Jul 2008
I did a degree in modern languages and it was a major advantage when applying for training contracts.
Posted by: Senior Associate, National Firm on 08 Jul 2008
Do a different non-law degree. Find something you'd be interested in. It sounds as though you've selected Land Economy because it includes a little law - that sounds to me a terrible reason to do it. Do a proper non-law degree, then the CPE/PgDL when the time comes. That's what perhaps half of my peers have done and it hasn't held them back. I can confirm from my time at Cambridge that land economy *is* renowned as a doss degree for people there to row or otherwise contribute to the university's sporting life. Even if that's nothing to do with why you'll be doing it, you will carry that stigma anyway. Granted, it'll probably be only in the eyes of the Oxbridge old boys' network, but if you're worried about a non-law degree hindering your career then you're probably worried about that too.
Posted on: 08 Jul 2008
A mixed degree is no hindrance, but Land Economy is seen as a joke at Cambridge (and by those in the know elsewhere). I naively almost opted for the same thing, and am so relieved I chose law in the end.
Posted by: Trainee at Magic Circle Firm (ex Cambridge) on 08 Jul 2008
Best to mix law with a language. Until I read the comments, I didn't realise what contempt Land Economy was held in by Cambridge graduates, but was reminded what a lovely bunch they tend to be...!
Posted by: In Houser on 08 Jul 2008
You only get one chance to do a degree, so make sure it's something interesting and genuinely academically stimulating, and not a quasi-vocational load of crap like law. Everyone I know who did a law degree hated it and it put all but the most boring off a career in law. So do the degree you want to do, then get someone to pay for you to go through the complete doss of the GDL and LPC. You'll be one year older, but you will appreciate that extra year as a *paid student* so much. History. Now there's a degree.
Posted by: US associate on 08 Jul 2008
When I was at Cambridge many years ago, History was a complete doss and over 80% of them got a 2:1 or better even then. How about that instead of Land Economy?
Posted on: 08 Jul 2008
I did a mixed law and German degree - it was a lot more interesting than straight law and I am sure it helped me get my training contract (and I spent six months in Germany as a trainee). If you want to do law, then do law and get the exemptions - the GDL is expensive. But if you can afford the GDL, do something completely different - something that interests you and that you are good at.
Posted by: Helen on 08 Jul 2008
I did history, and barely any work and got a first. Choosing law is a mug's game and the hard way to do it. Moreover, its so specialised, in my view, that you're a worse person as a result - you'd be better off doing something to at least help you think in a contrarian way, which I am not sure law does at least initially.
Posted on: 08 Jul 2008
My time doing the GDL was the best studying year of my life: you are working with like-minded motivated people who have made a real choice about their future, rather than people who have 'fallen' into law like so many people doing law at university who go on to the LPC. If you are good, a non-law degree is not a hindrance at all, but you do need to make sure that you get some law-based work experience/vacation placements during your degree so that you can demonstrate your interest in the subject. I got work experience through a family friend in my first year at university, so that I had something to put on my CV while applying for vacation placements in my second year (it is harder to get a vacation scheme as a non-lawyer), and something to put on my training contract applications in my third year. You have to plan ahead! (And by the way, I went to Oxford and we all had the same view of Land Economy at Cambridge: choose something else!)
Posted by: Associate, Top 30 firm on 09 Jul 2008
Land Economy is a no-no. If you are dead set on law, just do a law degree. Regardless of what people may say, there is stiff competition for non-law places. Yes, the larger firms tend to recruit law and non-law grads in equal measure. Despite this statistic, I know a lot of history grads who have ended up doing accountancy as a fallback; their grand plan having been to do the CPE and get a TC. Converting isn't the cakewalk that people make it out to be. Make it easy for yourself - do law at Oxbridge, London or a good redbrick - get 2.1 with every other Tom, Dick and Harry - get TC.
Posted by: future trainee on 09 Jul 2008
Rather cynical view from 'Future Trainee' and not accurate, although I would swallow hard about a Land Economy degree. However, on non-law degrees generally, I would suggest that they are beginning to have an advantage. What is key to a training contract is commercial awareness and candidates need to be able to demonstrate this. Good luck!
Posted by: Practice Manager Large Regional Law Firm on 09 Jul 2008
Whether or not it is a blessing to have done a mixed degree I don't think it is fair for people who did non-law degrees to take a pop at people who read law. There may be good motivated people who did the GDL, but equally there are many who chose to do (and did not 'fall into') a straight law degree and got more detailed and useful grounding in subjects like contract law, company law and other relevant commercial law subjects you cannot do on the GDL. I've encountered corporate lawyers who did the GDL and did not know what Salomon v. Salomon & Co decided or why it is important. I think that says it all.
Posted by: US firm corporate associate who read law on 09 Jul 2008
I did law, enjoyed it and I did gain a greater understanding of my chosen profession. However, after three years' LLB, one year LLM, two years' training, eight years practising as a solicitor, the law became very much a 'been there, done that' experience for me. Studying another subject at degree level may have helped prolong my interest in this profession for longer. Or may be not!
Posted on: 10 Jul 2008
I'm a third-year corporate associate and I freely admit I've never heard of the Salomon case another poster has mentioned. But who cares? Our clients certainly don't. I did about six months worth of law on the GDL, did enough to pass the exams (i.e. bugger all until the last two weeks) and had a laugh and a load of beers on the firm who sponsored me. Do history.
Posted by: US associate on 10 Jul 2008
US Associate, I suspect your clients *will* care when you give negligent advice that ends up costing them millions. So will your risk managers. So will your insurers. If you couldn't even be bothered learning about how the law got to where it is, do you bother to keep up to date on what's happening now? To answer the original post, I am from a country where a law degree is mandatory for all lawyers, so we had no choice, but it's a really interesting subject and any degree is what you make of it. If you don't think it sounds interesting enough now, before you've even started, I would think quite hard about whether it's something you really want to do for years on end after you graduate. Despite the commonly-held view that law is now all about commercial advice, there is still a lot of actual lawyering involved in many jobs, and you do have to have an interest in it or you just wouldn't show up every day.
Posted on: 11 Jul 2008
I studied English and Philosophy at undergrad and then did the CPE and LPC. I have found that often those who did the CPE/GDL have been more up-to-date with their legal knowledge, and have a more practical legal knowledge, than those who studied straight law and who often did contract in their first year, paid no attention and forgot it all immediately afterwards! If you work hard at the conversion you will get a very good legal background.
Posted on: 14 Jul 2008
It's all about the university name (you can't go wrong with Oxford or Cambridge) and degree class (2:1). Apart from that, go for whatever mickey mouse, non-law course that takes your fancy. Uni is about sex, not studying. Then when you have converted to law, done your traineeship and a one or two years' PQE in a good City firm, go expat, earn lots and see the world.
Posted by: Sunny on 17 Jul 2008
So many people are calling Land Economy a 'joke' and a 'second-rated subject at Cambridge'. It's easy for you to focus on one subject, but Land Economists have to balance three different subjects well, studying them in depth and have to work just as hard to get their grades as anyone else does. That actually shows better organisational skills, flexibility and a broader (and relevant) knowledge base. Just because it's not a mixture offered at other universities and not an age-old subject doesn't mean the people doing it are less bright. At the end of the day, law at degree level at Cambridge is academic law, and without the LPC you don't have the proper skills to practise as a lawyer. So if you aren't keen to do a law degree, why spend three years doing law when it's only another year of GDL after a non-law degree?
Posted by: Current Cambridge Student, non-Land Economist on 22 Jul 2008
Head of Office - Abu Dhabi
Senior Employment Lawyer - Manchester
© Copyright and database rights legalweek.com 2008. Powered by: Madgex Job Board Software
