I'm a six-year PQE corporate associate at a large Bristol firm. The 'crunch' is chewing through our department's deal pipeline and, perhaps unsurprisingly, there is evidence of firms savagely undercutting one another to land mandates. Promotion, pay and securing exposure to decent work are already under threat and job security will become, I imagine, increasingly a concern. So far, so real world. Offshore, particularly Dubai, or Australia are therefore of interest for, say, two or three years.
I have a few queries. Any thoughts on the M&A and employment market underlying the rationale for my proposed move? What's the quality of 'expat life' (including cost of living) in Dubai or Oz and approximate pay-scales for 6PQE corporate? And how hard will it be to return to the UK (assuming an 'average' recruitment market)?
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I share your sentiments. Tricky times at present.
Do you suppose Imvestment Banker has gone to Brisbane? Sigh!
I'm in the same boat, same pqe and at one of the top 2 in Bristol. My fear re Brisbane is that you'd not get much deal exposure as there isn't a great deal going on up there. If you're seriously thinking of Oz, head for Sydney or Melbourne so you don't dent your CV.
Quality of life is better. Economy is much stronger in large part due to mining boom. An employer which has an alliance with a UK firm could pave the way for a smoother return (in the unlikely event you ever want to leave!). Aussie firm Phillips Fox has an alliance with DLA Piper. Clayton Utz in Melbourne also highly recommended.
I worked in Sydney in the 1990's and can thoroughly recommend working and living in Australia. Decent Sydney and Melbourne based firms are actively recruiting at the memoent so now is a good time to go. Personally Sydney or Melbourne will be much better places to work than Brisbane if you decide to go to Australia, as they are the real powerhouses economically in Australia and the work will be better there. As regards Australia over Dubai it is much more than just somewhere to work - Sydney is an amazing city with a much lower cost of living than in London and more going on than Bristol - Bristol is great I am fromther and still go back regularly but Syndey is 1 of the best cities in the world to live and work. Go for it I say.
You'll be looking for a job as a 9 year qualified lawyer - i.e. partner level - but what will your client/contact list look like to generate business when you come home? The return might be a tough one if everyone you know is in a different continent.
I wonder, I wonder, I wonder - is Investment Banker - the drop dead gorgeous bloke in yesterday's Daily Mail - Geraint Anderson. If so, article makes for interesting (corporate) reading - you could try "google"!!!!
The cost of living in Sydney may well have been lower in the '90s but, having just spent time there, I can assure you that the difference between there and London is minimal at best. Sydney is expensive so make sure you can earn decent bucks before making any decisions.
I have been looking to make a similar move myself for quite a while now. Here is a quick summary of my conclusions after months of research, speaking to other people who "been there, done that" etc:
1) Don't move for money (tax, cost of living and lower salary means you will be significantly poorer - though possible less so for youself since you are on Bristol rates); 2) career advancement (I agree with the previous poster regarding contacts) or 3) shorter hrs (lawyers in Oz work just as hard as lawyers in any other jurisdiction). Having said that I also firmly believe that overall you will have a better quality of life (better food; weather; beaches etc), so if you are looking to experience working outside the UK, then Australia is a good choice. Also now may be the best time to move. One of the major factors holding me back was the concern that if I left the UK, I would not be able to afford to move back (because the way the housing market was going) - now with the house prices looking static over the next couple years (at best), you don't have to be concerned about being priced out when you decide to move back.
Let's get a few things straight, I work at a US bulge-bracket so don't even try to compare me a third-tier research analyst. As for the move to Australia, I have a weak spot for Australian women and that's a good enough reason to move over there!
O joy! Investment Banker returns, with his bracket bulging. (Don't even bulge-brackets employ research analysts?)
For interested ladies out there, my head (in both senses) is bulge-bracket! Ofcourse bulge-brackets employ research analysts, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm neither a research analyst nor a third-tier firm employee!
This thread is rapidly becoming nearly as interesting as the beard/fishnet sagas.
and what are you doing in that bulge bracket, exactly? transaction manage, paper push or count your days?
he's not the real investment banker. don't be fooled.
I'm Investment Banker!
I'm not sure what a bulging bracket is, but can also assume it is rude.
Go to Brisbane. It is fab.
I studied and practiced law in Bristol and London before moving into recruitment. I spent three years in London, then moved to Australia 18 months ago. Whilst I'd agree with some of the comments above regarding criteria and motivations for coming across, you need to be very careful that you do not kill the pulse of your career, regardless of location. You're pretty senior now - at least senior enough to be on the cusp of partnership consideration, so seriously consider the criteria for being made up. The criteria won't change just because your tap water circles anti-clockwise. It's quite possible that you could drive your career forward in Australia but do your own research on local market trends as much as you possibly can. Law firms will still hire you but that won't necessarily indicate there’s integrity in the move. You need to plan for work, prospects and appropriate remuneration over a sensible time frame (at least 3-5 years). The more senior you become, the more expensive you are to hire so if you don’t have a book of business, you’ll be pricing yourself out of a great deal of opportunities, regardless of location. On the other hand, the practice model in Australia encourages a broader skill set than in the UK so you may find that offers you stronger consideration than a shrinking local market, especially if you’re thinking about moving in-house in the future. Good luck!
You may be able to save some cash in Dubai and enjoy the ex-pat lifestyle, but my many friends there constantly whinge about the rocketing inflation, stellar cost of living,and resultant inability to save.
I wasted eight years there in the 1990s. Doubt its changed much. It's all veneer, no substance. Unless you do big-ticket project work, Oz sounds like a better prospect for lifestyle and CV.
Good luck old chap!
I have about eight years' PQE and have worked in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, regional UK and Dubai, so I hope I have some useful advice.
If Oz, to keep the career ticking along stick to Sydney or Melbourne. Brisbane talks it up a bit but has a long way to catch up and the better work for the foreseeable future is in Sydney and Melbourne. Lifestyle-wise Brisbane has hot weather but is pretty boring really and both Sydney and Melbourne are exciting and better places to live; Sydney more so if you like the beach and Melbourne if you like something a bit more cultural and interesting and with more major events. The work experience in Sydney and Melbourne will be good, though of course do plenty of research - the same-looking job in big firms can range from being very hands-on to 'helping out' and the legal world is very saturated as you get more senior. There is a scarcity of 2-5 year PQE lawyers as we all bugger off overseas but then post six years, while there are jobs, getting the move up is competitive.
Dubai positives are probably still some decent extra money if you're coming from regional UK and there should be an ability to save, even with inflation and costs as long as you want to keep it in check. The work is mostly excellent and hands-on, so your further development, being at the front of big deals and nowhere to hide, will be massive. You are also likely to see rewards for hard work as its not yet saturated. It is superficial, soulless and tacky and you will be disturbed by the way they treat certain peoples, their laws and the fact you're not in a democracy but a morally bizarre dictatorship. That said, its not Saudi and you get to drive a very nice car and have someone clean your house and do your ironing. Socially it's actually not too bad though you have to be careful.
So, to be honest, on balance if career is of pressing importance now probably go to Dubai, if you want a fun change and an experience familiar but refreshing head to Oz. You don't go for the money but you will find yourself I think a bit happier there.
Pay in Australia - take an equivalent PQE London wage and halve it, you will get the London figure in pounds in Australian dollars (about half). Dubai, same as London, no tax though. Sydney almost as expensive as London, Dubai probably more so. Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth will see your cash go a lot further.
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